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Photo by M. Scott Moon
Members of Occupy Kenai/Soldotna add their voices Friday night to the Occupy Wall Street movement at the corner of the Kenai Spur Highway and Bridge Access Road in Kenai. The Occupy Wall Street movement is protesting the role followers believe corporations and banks have in government, and the overall distribution of wealth.

Photo: Occupy the Peninsula

Posted: October 29, 2011 - 10:07am  |  Updated: October 29, 2011 - 9:18pm
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akmscott
127
Points
akmscott 10/30/11 - 07:09 am
0
0
Was this really a big enough

Was this really a big enough event to be newsworthy?It's time for the liberal press to give up on promoting this lunacy!

RaySouthwell
953
Points
RaySouthwell 10/30/11 - 09:35 am
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Lunacy?

Akmscott,
You call this lunacy.

What is lunacy is how we the people have given our government over to the corporate banks.

Read the GAO report about the Federal Reserve Bank and how the directors are nothing more than the CEO’s of the banks giving themselves loans.

See what US Senator Bernie Sanders (I-Vt) said about the report

http://sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=9e2a4ea8-6e73-4be2-a753-62060dcbb3c3

also-

http://sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=70c40aba-736c-4716-97d1-45f1a1af10a0

I am sure it will make you feel warm and fuzzy all over to read how the CEO of GE (they paid no federal Income tax in 2010) gave his bank a $16 billion loan.

Here is Senator Sanders Quote
“Jeffrey Immelt The Federal Reserve Bank of New York consulted with General Electric on the creation of the Commercial Paper Funding Facility. The Fed later provided $16 billion in financing for GE under the emergency lending program while Immelt, GE's CEO, served as a director on the board of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.”

akmscott
127
Points
akmscott 10/30/11 - 11:52 am
0
0
Yeah-like I said, lunacy!

Yeah-like I said, lunacy!

EWZuber
9
Points
EWZuber 10/30/11 - 12:00 pm
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Liberal?

I don't get it, whats liberal about wanting our bail-out money back? That strikes me as fiscally conservative, no?

The super rich bankers have absconded with the vast majority of all the money in the country and are hoarding it, leaving very little for the middle class and very little to circulate within the economy. Consequently the economy is hurting.
"...The economic top one percent of the (US)population now owns over 70% of all financial assets, an all time record..."
That means that 99% of the population is left to divide the remaining 30% of financial assets among themselves.
"...A huge share of the nation's economic growth over the past 30 years has gone to the top one-hundredth of one percent, who now make an average of $27 million per household. The average income for the bottom 90 percent of us? $31,244..."
I'd say this deserves some discussion, particularly when one considers how the super rich acquired a substantial amount of this money.

http://www.alternet.org/economy/145705/the_richest_1%25_have_captured_america's_wealth_--_what's_it_going_to_take_to_get_it_back

http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/02/income-inequality-in-america-chart-graph

roserph
2
Points
roserph 10/30/11 - 12:00 pm
0
0
Hilarious!

7 people standing on a corner is newsworthy? Outstanding! Too funny! I am happy to say that it appears at least Alaskans can spell(unlike the other Occupiers).

The entire Occupy movement is amusing.

roserph
2
Points
roserph 10/30/11 - 12:02 pm
0
0
And EWZuber quotes...

...motherjones and alternet as sources....the laughs continue.

RaySouthwell
953
Points
RaySouthwell 10/30/11 - 12:47 pm
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0
Akmscott

Akmscott,
Beside name calling do you have any logic behind the idea of lunacy.

Like I presented?

RaySouthwell
953
Points
RaySouthwell 10/30/11 - 12:51 pm
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EWZuber

EWZuber,

You have been misled into believing what wealth is. It is not the percentage of money that the 1% has or the lack of money the other 99% have.

It is our productive capacity as a nation. Financial banking is not productive. The banks have created the idea that wealth is money.

If, we the people, realized the productive power of the people is real wealth, we would all prosper.

I believe a productive person or nation will always end up with the money from those non-productive consumers.

Look at what is happening in China. They are productive and we give them our money for what they produce.

Think about it and let’s get together and become productive again in Alaska.

akmscott
127
Points
akmscott 10/30/11 - 01:31 pm
0
0
It comes down to jealousy and

It comes down to jealousy and coveting what others have.If they have earned it theirs.Go earn your own money and let some-one say they want it.Bet you'd scream then!

RaySouthwell
953
Points
RaySouthwell 10/30/11 - 01:51 pm
0
0
Akmscott

Akmscott,

Thank you. It appears you believe the same as EWZuber. Money is wealth. It is not.

Please read my post to her/him.

Banks do not earn anything. They create what they believe is wealth-money.

We all have been misled.

If we come together, in Alaska, we can all prosper under a productive system of true financial success.

Can we come together?

kenai_kid
222
Points
kenai_kid 10/30/11 - 01:55 pm
0
0
@akmscott

I think you are missing the point of the movement. It has nothing, or at the very least, very little to do with the re-distribution of wealth. It has to do with getting big money to stop determining who our elected representatives are going to be. Whether that is a giant corporation, a union, or simply a wealthy individual, money should play a lesser roll in politics, elections and public policy.

akmscott
127
Points
akmscott 10/30/11 - 02:06 pm
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I truly don't believe the

I truly don't believe the "movement" even knows what's it's talking about!Ask ten of them and get ten different answers.Most will have visions of socialism,communism, or anarchy.

RaySouthwell
953
Points
RaySouthwell 10/30/11 - 02:23 pm
0
0
Kenai-kid

Kenai-kid,

I think you got it. (Google corporate personhood)What are we going to do about it?

We must come up with a plan, anger is not enough.
So what is our plan for financial success?

I believe it is what our definition of wealth is.

RaySouthwell
953
Points
RaySouthwell 10/30/11 - 02:32 pm
0
0
akmscott

Akmscott,

I think you are correct. Anger is not enough.

The powers that be will use it, to divide us.

I have an old/new thought, Fair Market Capitalism. Ever heard of it?

The Founders of the Country understood it. They realized Free Market Capitalism failed under the Articles of Confederation and created the Constitution with Fair Market Capitalism and the nation prospered.

cayote80
0
Points
cayote80 10/30/11 - 08:07 pm
0
0
Occupy

Most of the "occupiers" are clueless. If they're upset about crony corporatism (which I can't stand either) they should protest at the White House.

EWZuber
9
Points
EWZuber 10/30/11 - 08:36 pm
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0
roserph

If you didn't like those references then you will probably find fault with the likes of Warren Buffet;
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/opinion/stop-coddling-the-super-rich.html

Or the Congressional Budget Office;
"...That top 1 percent saw its income skyrocket by 275 percent (from 1979 ~ 2007)...Income for the bottom 20 percent, meanwhile, grew by just 18 percent....

Or University of California Santa Cruz;
"...In terms of types of financial wealth, the top one percent of households have 38.3% of all privately held stock, 60.6% of financial securities, and 62.4% of business equity. The top 10% have 80% to 90% of stocks, bonds, trust funds, and business equity, and over 75% of non-home real estate. Since financial wealth is what counts as far as the control of income-producing assets, we can say that just 10% of the people own the United States of America..."

Its pretty obvious that the monetary wealth is being concentrated in a disproportionately small percentage of the population.
This gives them the power to own the court system, the politicians, and the bureaucrats.

RaySouthwell
953
Points
RaySouthwell 10/30/11 - 09:31 pm
0
0
Occupy DC 1932

Cayote80,
If my memory is correct the military can be used against occupiers in Washington DC.

Remember Washington DC is not part of the United States. The Laws protecting Occupy Wall Street outside DC do not apply within the seat of Central Government.

Read our history concerning the Occupiers of DC in 1932.

See- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army

Focus in on the "background" at this Wikipedia site.

Sack_013
0
Points
Sack_013 10/31/11 - 06:54 am
0
0
The Heart of the Problem

I think that the power may appear to be in D.C., but the heart of the problem is actually on Wall Street. When Goldman Sachs lobbyists become the chief of staff to the Secretary of Treasury then we have a compromised political system, which serves certain corporate interests instead of being a people's government.

Anybody who has a little bit of time on their hands might find that these Occupiers have some interesting things to say that they agree with, if you avoid the media's attempts to demonize or co-opt this movement, it is not partisan, and has nothing to do with party politics.

Check this out, if you are really interested in what some of these folks have to say:

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/dr2mph

RaySouthwell
953
Points
RaySouthwell 10/31/11 - 10:58 am
0
0
Federal Reserve Bank

sack_013

You are correct. Also look at the connection at the Federal Reserve Bank and the Wall Street Banks.

Both major political parties are controlled by the Bankers.

I posted this before and do it again here.

http://sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=9e2a4ea8-6e73-4be2-a753-62060dcbb3c3

http://sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=70c40aba-736c-4716-97d1-45f1a1af10a0

cheapersmokes
756
Points
cheapersmokes 10/31/11 - 11:57 am
0
0
Occupy

These protests are commendable when they draw the common working person to join up but when they are mainly filled with paid protesters who have no other job then they lose all creditability in my view. In order for it to succeed in any respect they need to come up with a sensible platform and get a spokesperson for each group so they present a unified message to the public with some solutions they see that will solve the problems. Until this happens most of them are just welfare recipients in my mind and looking to make as much as a banker does while they park their butts on the couch watching daytime TV.

kenai_kid
222
Points
kenai_kid 10/31/11 - 03:02 pm
0
0
The Bonus Army

I believe this is the protest Ray Southwell was talking about.

http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1513.html
http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/bonusarmy.htm

The marchers of this "Bonus Army" marched down Pennsylvania Avenue in DC chanting:

"Mellon pulled the whistle,
Hoover rang the bell,
Wall Street gave the signal
And the country went to hell."

It is Almost as if only the names need to be changed to make it apply to todays financial crisis and the Occupy Movement.

Sack_013
0
Points
Sack_013 10/31/11 - 08:09 pm
0
0
FED UP!

Thanks RaySouthwell. I was aware of secret bailouts from the Fed, but did not know that it was quite to the tune of $16 trillion. Not that I am surprised.

Did you look at the document that I linked? I'm quite interested in what you think.

RaySouthwell
953
Points
RaySouthwell 10/31/11 - 10:09 pm
0
0
Sack_013

Sack_013

I often respond to posts without looking at attached internet sites. I have gone back to look at it.

I have some different thoughts concerning history. It services no purpose to discuss our differences. When, we the people, are in control again we can discuss our differences.

I support OWS right under the first amendment. It is their Unalienable Right to protest and I will defend their right.

Within the Alaska Citizens Militia network we are having a lengthy discussion. Some members believe OWS are Marxist in their thinking or just lazy people who want something for nothing.

Reminds me how those on the left were led into believing I was something I am not.

I do not support Marxist Ideology and can explain clearly why. It does not matter now. Whatever OWS stands for I support their Right to protest.

Our Government has a long history of calling protestors Marxists. See what happened to these “Communists” from the past.

Google these facts from history
Haymarket massacre
Red neck war
Matewan Massacre
Bonus Army
Civil Rights movement of the 60’s

I have been involved with peaceful change in government for 20 years. Everything in your attached site has been done before. The Supreme Court allows people to demand redress of grievances but the government does not have to respond. I have lived it over the last 20 years.

I will close with this. Communism, Free Market Capitalism and Anarchism are all doomed to fail. They all have one thing in common. They believe man is good-we are not. We must have a system of checks and balances on an even playing field. It is called Fair Market Capitalism. The Founders understood the failure of the Free Market under the Article of Confederation. They created Fair Market Capitalism under the Constitution.

EWZuber
9
Points
EWZuber 10/31/11 - 11:30 pm
0
0
Fair Market Capitalism

RaySouthwell, an interesting concept but you may find it practically impossible to implement. To begin with it would likely have to be implemented world wide to have a chance at success. Case in point, right now the Chinese are glutting the market with solar panels. They know that the world-wide demand is estimated at ~16 Gigawatts (16 billion watts) in 2012.
They are working towards glutting the market by producing 40 Gigawatts in an attempt to drive down profit margins and run the competition out of business or force them to close factories elsewhere and open them in China.
In Fair Market Capitalism it would seem to me that the government would be required to limit production if it felt that the intent of the company(s) was hostile. This would create a whole new arm of company lobbyists spinning company intent to politicians looking for campaign contributions.
It would be more of the same. Right now we have regulatory arms of government effectively infiltrated by corporate executives making sure that they get their product to market or gain some advantage. Like a Monsanto lobbyist (Michael Taylor)appointed as the USDA 'food safety czar'. Is it a pure coincidence that Monsanto is at a critical point in getting a number of their GMO frankenfoods approved for market?
First I submit we have to get the money out of politics with publically funded elections and clean up bureaucratic appointments, eliminating the revolving door between industry and government.

bob99507
361
Points
bob99507 11/01/11 - 03:54 am
0
0
Ron Paul

Doesn't Ron Paul want to abolish the Federal Reserve Bank? How many OWS would vote for Ron Paul?

EWZuber
9
Points
EWZuber 11/01/11 - 06:56 am
0
0
Fed

bob99507, thats a single issue. It's not reasonable to expect someone to vote for president based on one issue.

RaySouthwell
953
Points
RaySouthwell 11/01/11 - 07:03 am
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Henry C. Carey 1861 book

EWZuber,
I love it when people understand the complexity of things. You Understand.

We currently have Free Market capitalism on an uneven playing field.

Case in point-China- Few if any labor laws or environmental laws. They have an unfair advantage. Americans can out-produce any and all on the planet given an even playing field.

Fair Market capitalism puts all on an even playing field. That is why our Constitution has the Commerce Clause. Under The Articles of Confederation we had Free Market Capitalism. Each State did as they saw fit and, as a nation, we failed economically. This is now occurring in the European Union.

Your thoughts raise significant question, can it be implemented globally?

President Lincoln had the same question raised. One of his economic advisors was Henry C. Carey. In 1861 Carey wrote a book called “The Harmony of Interests.” Most of the book revolved around statistics about the productivity of the people when there was a global Free Market and he compared it to Fair Market Capitalism using protectionism.

I quote Carey here-
“But little study of our history is required to satisfy the inquirer that the power of the Union, and its magnificent position among the nations of the earth, are due to the fact that we have to so great an extent abstained from measures requiring the maintenance of fleets and armies.”

Today, we have the same choices. We can have higher priced goods produced in the USA and less military expenditures or have cheaper priced goods with higher taxes to support our military globally. I believe the monetary cost is the same for us. The human toll for our military empire is immeasurable.

Under Fair Market Capitalism productive limitation would be eliminated. The best product for the money would come to the market given an even playing field. Free market Capitalism eliminates a level playing field. China uses its people as expendable chattel for the good of the majority. They can out produce us because they care little on safety of the employee or environment. It is an uneven playing field and we allow their products within the USA.

How do we get money out of politics? I think I have an answer, what is yours?

RaySouthwell
953
Points
RaySouthwell 11/01/11 - 07:15 am
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0
Ron Paul

Bob 99507,

People always look to some individual who is “good” to be elected.

President Obama was elected for hope and change. Nothing changes because we are divided as a people. We think some good person can change things.

There are no good people, only bad people who, on occasion, do good things.

The founders understood and established checks and balances to keep the self interest of man in check. Many believe we have evolved to a higher level of humanity. Man never changes.

Sack_013
0
Points
Sack_013 11/01/11 - 08:05 am
0
0
Ron Paul

@bob99507, To answer your question, the Occupy movement in general is not endorsing or supporting any candidate for the 2012 Presidential Election. But Ron Paul is still fairly popular at these sit ins. At many of the larger gatherings there are 'Ron Paul 2012' signs. I think the movement is in more danger of being co-opted by the Democrats than Ron Paul though, and they are trying hard not to be identified with any form of party politics.

Personally, I like Ron Paul and a lot of what he stands for (not everything, but a lot), but I don't think that he is going to survive the primaries because the media is trying to make him dissapear. For example, back in September 22 Fox News had a poll on their website that asked it's viewers who won the debate in Orlando. Ron Paul was heavily favored. They pulled this poll from their site. This is just another example of how corporations have usurped control of the electoral process in my opinion, and another reason a lot of Ron Paul supporters are present at these gatherings.

Sack_013
0
Points
Sack_013 11/01/11 - 08:15 am
0
0
Fair Market Capitalism

RaySouthwell, I like a lot of what you have to say and think that it is commendable that you are approaching this with an open mind. If you go to the forums at occupywallst.org you will find that a lot of them will likely agree with your ideas.

As for getting money out of politics, it has been proposed by some to pass a 28th Amendment to the Constitution that reads: Corporations are not people. They have none of the Constitutional rights of human beings. Corporations are not allowed to give money to any politician, directly or indirectly. No politician can raise over $100 from any person or entity. All elections must be publicly financed.

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