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'Occupy' movement benefits from strength of many ideas

Posted: October 28, 2011 - 8:48am

Contrary to Rush Limbaugh, Wall Street Occupiers are not ignorant Obama-lovers, Iran sympathizers, anti-Semites or lazy, frustrated hippies.

Occupiers come from all walks of life; at a recent OWS rally in Anchorage, I met protestors who are health care workers, teachers, laborers, students and soldiers.  I'm a retired oilfield worker, an investor, and I worship a Jew, Jesus.

I don't remember Obama's name coming up at all, either formally or informally and we didn't watch any grainy footage of Khamenei's rants.

As Occupiers, the two main things holding us together are our contempt for the death-grip Big Money has on our political system and our common belief that the game is rigged for the benefit of those who buy off our lawmakers and those who mold public opinion through their control of the media.

This movement has legs; The "General Assembly" decision-making method we use guarantees that everyone has a voice and that the strength of ideas -- rather than the strength of any one leader -- will propel us toward a more pure democracy.

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spwright
1376
Points
spwright 10/28/11 - 11:49 am
0
0
Americans vs Americans 10/28/11

Fri. 10/28/11
I support the "99ers" but I see what others may or may not see,

This is turning into another very Ugly & Violent Battle between
our Fellow Americans.
Americans vs Americans, The Protesters are Americans & the Police are Americans.

As the "1%" watch from their Ivory Towers of the Super $Rich$ & LAUGH as Americans attack each other. & once again They are LAUGHING ALL THE WAY TO THE BANK.

The Police are Working Class Union Americans but the Police in Oakland California have crossed the line when they
purposely launched a tear gas canister into the head of a Protester. That resulted in a serious head injury & a fractured skull. That Protester is a UNITED STATES MARINE Combat Veteran w/ 2 Combat Tours in Iraq.
The Oakland Police have made a HUGE Mistake injuring that MARINE. Never underestimate the Power of [filtered word] Off Combat MARINES."You did this to Our Brother"

Now I'm sure that fellow Peninsula Residents will follow the
Glen Beck & Rush Limbaugh & Fox News & rant & rave about
how Bad the Protesters are. "We are the 99ers"

Americans against Americans as the Super Rich LAUGH from above & are entertained by all of this.

SPW "Airborne"

picphoman
0
Points
picphoman 10/28/11 - 12:27 pm
0
0
occupy

spwright, How do you know that the Oakland police purposely launched a tear gas canister at the head of a protester.

I am tired of the 99ers claiming everyone as part of the 99 %. I am not part of the 1% but certainly not part of the 99%. I pay taxes and do not expect the rich to give me part of the money they have earned. I agree that some of the larger banks take advantage. But just because you are a millionaire does not mean you got it on the backs of poor. I wonder how many Alaskans are millionaires in land alone.

People keep voting for the same old politicians and wonder why things don't change.

mps13
2
Points
mps13 10/28/11 - 01:33 pm
0
0
occupy

Thank you for the well-written letter, from someone who has been part of the movement first-hand. It's so easy for the big money earners, even here on the Peninsula, to attempt to paint any protesters as "worthless, lazy hippies". Thank you, Eric, for putting a very different face on the movement.

Norseman
2966
Points
Norseman 10/28/11 - 01:37 pm
0
0
corporations

It is the corporations that own America. They have the billions of dollars to lobby for their causes, new laws, and bills. The little guy like you, spw, and me cannot.

Big money OWN all the media, all the banks, wall street, policians, and pretty soon your food. Monsanto is now trying to finish owning the patent to every seed.

No one is complaining that you do not have a right to make money in America, we just want an even playing field.

All of us are sick of what has happened to our country because of big business and big money. They have total and complete freedom to spend billions on elections and feed it thru whatever media they own.

I agree with spw, now we have Americans fighting Americans. I too wore a uniform for 3 years and am sickened to see freedoms, rights, and quality of life disintegrating due to the greed of an unregulated wall street, corporations, and unfair and unbalanced news medias.

Living in AK should have opened the eyes of the one's in denial. Has everyone forgotten the corruption in this state?

Who do you think runs this state? Us? Wrongo. We have an ex Big Oil lobbyist sitting in the Governors mansion right now. Who do you think he is going to represent?
you? me? Or BP, Conoco, Exxon.

spwright
1376
Points
spwright 10/28/11 - 03:50 pm
0
0
Scott Olsen USMC 10/28/11

Fri 10/28/11
"picphoman" You want Proof ? watch the video at this website : vimeo.com/31187119

That is absolute Proof that this young MARINE was no threat at all to the Oakland Police. He was standing beside a Navy Sailor & the American Flag, simply standing at attention.
Large Explosion & the next thing you know He is laying on the ground w/ a fractured skull.

Follow the blogs of United States Marines "You have done this to Our Brother" These Marines are [filtered word] & rightfully so.

meanwhile the '1% ers' are LAUGHING as a fellow Veteran is seriously injuried.

SPW "Airborne"

lcs
0
Points
lcs 10/28/11 - 06:56 pm
0
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bought and stolen

Thanks Eric. Nice summary, and it's totally consistent with what I saw and heard in my visits downtown to Occupy Anchorage events. I'm a white collar professional, with a decent income, yet I am really conscious of the reality that giant corporations or big money interests have bought our political system; and stolen the "opportunity" that younger generations need to succeed and participate fully in the America. A very mixed crowd at Occupy Anchorage seemed to have that in common, although they are, as you say, of many ages, walks of life, perspectives and incomes. http://bit.ly/oUgDRr

witchwitch
51
Points
witchwitch 10/29/11 - 08:01 am
0
0
All is not well in America...

The Occupy movement is a result of frustration from the people against our government and economic system. We don't have citizen legislators. We've allowed our political system to become a business that is unduly influenced by lobbyists. The industrial/military complex has promoted war all over the planet, while we spend more on military than every other nation combined. Our largest growth industry here on the peninsula is the justice system, while government employees are granted immunity and juries are ordered to judge only the facts and not the law.

There are endless complaints of favoritism and unjust acts supported by our government. We are no longer a nation by and for the people. It's likely to get worse before it gets better. More blood will be spilled on our streets.

I'm surprised that our economy hasn't collapsed outright and I don't expect our economic situation to improve without fundamental changes in our system.

Sack_013
0
Points
Sack_013 10/29/11 - 08:47 am
0
0
Occupy

Thank you for the well written article, I really do feel that there is a need to clarify that this is not a movement of party politics, but a movement of the people and you summed it up very nicely. Well done! Thank you for dispelling a lot of the ugly rumors and half-truths that are being spread!

@picphoman, I have talked with several of the protesters that were in Oakland when Scott Olsen was injured, and every one of them claims that all of the tear gas cannisters were being aimed and launched at head level. Regardless, it is a travesty that this young man served two tours in Iraq only to come home and be shot in the head by a police officer for peacefully protesting, for participating in the democracy of the country that he swore an oath to protect.

Think_4_yourself
0
Points
Think_4_yourself 10/29/11 - 12:13 pm
0
0
occupy

The Occupiers absolutely do not speak for the 99%. I am sure some who choose to protest with this group really are middle class working folk who just want to be heard, but far too many of the occupiers are just protestors. If they were not protesting Wall Street they would be protesting something else.

The thing I can not understand is why the occupiers attack Wall Street. It is our Government that has allowed Wall Street to do what it does. It is our elected officials who sell out to big business and lobiests. These are the people we should be upset with.

Blaming Wall Street or big business for the financial mess this Nation is in is like blaming a traffic Cop when you get a speeding ticket. He (the Cop) was not the one speeding and he did not set the legal speed limit.

Why should we expect Wall Street to have moral restraint when we do not expect the same from the corrupt government officials that greedily accept the lobiests money?

Think people!

the_postman
39
Points
the_postman 10/29/11 - 08:40 pm
0
0
Slackers and sponges

At today's protest across the street from Arby's in Kenai, the passers' by were a bit edgier than last night. One lady, who was a passenger in a shiny, new black pick-up, leaned her head out of the window and with a red face, bulging eyes, and neck muscles taut as fiddle-strings, she shouted at the top of her lungs, "Get a job!!!!! Get a job!!!!!" What she didn't know is that except for those there who are retired -- and the little girl who was there -- everybody had at least one job, and in some cases, two. There seems to be a misconception that Occupiers want something for nothing... That we want to take away something from one group and give it to another. Well, I guess, in a sense we do; we want to take the excess political power away from the wealthy and restore it to everyday folks, including the lady in the black pick-up. All we want is to get the money out of politics. Period.

Eric Treider

cayote80
0
Points
cayote80 10/30/11 - 08:05 pm
0
0
Occupy

I don't know about these Alaskan protesters, but most of the "occupiers" want to dismantle free enterprise (capitalism), which in part made our country great. If they don't like the big corporations getting favoritism (which I don't like either) they should protest at the White House.

RaySouthwell
953
Points
RaySouthwell 10/30/11 - 10:30 pm
0
0
Looking for answers

All right we all know how to complain.

Let’s hear answers.

Who will be first-Norseman how about you. We seem to agree here.

the_postman
39
Points
the_postman 10/30/11 - 11:12 pm
0
0
Greetings, Ray!

Ray, good to see you in this discussion! When it gets right down to it, I think the Occupiers share many of the same goals you do -- maybe for different reasons -- but we share many of the same goals, I think. Eric Treider

RaySouthwell
953
Points
RaySouthwell 10/31/11 - 01:36 am
0
0
Eric

2011-October 31, 2011
Eric,

Thanks for identifying yourself as the_ Postman.

I am not sure our goals are different. I think we both desire a better future for our children and in my case my grandchildren.

Our approach may be different but we must not let those in power divide us.

I saw what happened to the Tea Party. I think they believe the founders of the Country were all perfect. I now see it happening to the Occupy Wall Street folks. I think they believe the founders were all slave owners.

I believe the founders were neither good nor all slave owners. They were bad people who understood the truth but compromised their beliefs for their own self interest.

All people are bad and need checks and balances for the protection of the population. Occasionally bad people may do good things.

I read one of your liberal link sites off Facebook. (strangebedfellows) The Militia is not neonazi-exact the opposite. This is the kind of misinformation to keep us from talking to each other.

We need to get past the political talking heads, that continue to divide us and find our own answers.
What are the answers?

spwright
1376
Points
spwright 10/31/11 - 07:45 am
0
0
SCOTT OLSEN Medical Condition ? 10/31/11

Eric "The PostMan" Mon. Halloween 10/31/11

Do You have any Up-Dated info about the Medical Condition of SCOTT OLSEN USMC ?
Last I heard He was moved from Critical condition in the ICU to Fair condition in a hospital room. Then a bunch of news about swelling of the brain & surgery needed ?

You wouldn't believe the Lies being told by the Right Wing about this MARINE ! ei: He deserves a fractured skull because he protested in Oakland. on & on Lie after Lie
& these Idiots actually believe these Lies.

Please reply when time permits & thank you Eric.

SPW "Airborne"

the_postman
39
Points
the_postman 10/31/11 - 08:09 am
0
0
Misinformation

Ray,

That was an interesting article and it definitely had a strong Leftist perspective, but two themes of the article cut across all political lines; 1) we are waking up to the fact that we are only living in an illusion of democracy, and 2) when open-minded peace-makers from all of these divergent groups reach out to one another and gently shake them awake and call them to action, the 1% puppet-masters will have quite a lot to worry about.

Eric Treider

the_postman
39
Points
the_postman 10/31/11 - 08:19 am
0
0
Scott Olsen

Hi, SPW "Airborne"!

I just tried to do a google search for updates concerning Scott and it looks like he's going to live though he's got brain damage. What a waste. The government's approach to Occupy as been control and contain, not communicate. I just wrote Senators Begich and Murkowski and Rep. Young and asked them if they had taken time to attend an Occupy General Assembly meeting, and if not, why not. Attending a General Assembly doesn't mean that you support them; it simply means that you want to understand them... you want to open lines of communication. Sadly, I don't think our congressional delegation is interested in really communicating with anyone except their "clients" who give them their marching orders. Otherwise, wouldn't they have attended some Occupy meetings? If YOU were the people's representative, wouldn't you go down, stand in the circle with everyone and talk with these people who have unified to petition their government for fundamental changes? To me, it's a no-brainer and it just shows you who's calling the shots in America ---- and it ain't us, friends.

RaySouthwell
953
Points
RaySouthwell 10/31/11 - 11:42 am
0
0
Peace-maker

Eric,
“Illusion of democracy.”

We are a Constitutional Republic, a limited democracy.

With a democracy, the media can distort the truth and generate the public consent of tyranny by the majority.

I believe it was our democracy that generated public consent to march us into the many wars we battle around the globe.

I am sure you have read Noam Chomsky book “Manufacturing Consent.”

It is used on the Militia, Tea Party, Civil rights movement in the 60’s and now OWS.

If we believe we are a democracy we will allow tyranny of the majority. Welcome aboard to the tyranny.

RaySouthwell
953
Points
RaySouthwell 10/31/11 - 11:47 am
0
0
Looking for answers

I am still looking for answers or at least a discussion on developing answers to the complaints.

Any takers?

the_postman
39
Points
the_postman 10/31/11 - 12:22 pm
0
0
Tyranny

Hi Ray,

I haven't read Chomsky's book though I think that he is a brave, clear-thinking person. I follow your train of thought until I get to the last sentence stating that democracy allows the tyranny of the majority. Are you saying that the expressed wishes of the majority may not always be just? I can see occurrences in history when that has happened. It seems like when this occurs, the constitution steps in through the judicial system. What are your thoughts? What is the best way to insure that the majority doesn't trample on the rights of a minority?

Eric Treider

the_postman
39
Points
the_postman 10/31/11 - 12:27 pm
0
0
Specifics

Ray,

Regarding specific suggestions on minimizing corporate influence on politics, I believe in term limits, public financing of elections and a constitutional amendment to roll back "corporate personhood." Those are my personal goals. Everyone in the Occupy movement has their own feelings regarding what needs to get done.

Eric

RaySouthwell
953
Points
RaySouthwell 10/31/11 - 01:37 pm
0
0
Manipulated public-tyranny from the majority

Google this list from history regarding injustice allowed with the consent of the majority.

Haymarket Massacre
Red Neck War
Matewan Massacre
Bonus Army
Civil Rights movement of the 60's.

The media has manipulated the majority against the Constitutional Unalienable right of self preservation- The Militia.

It is now occurring in the OWS movement.

After all, we are told these folks want something they did not earn-money from producers. Not my thought but the majority of manipulated public.

RaySouthwell
953
Points
RaySouthwell 10/31/11 - 01:44 pm
0
0
Constitutional Republic

Eric,
We should be a Constitutional Republic, limited democracy.

Rule by the majority within limits of the individual rights of the minority.

These are Unalienable Rights given by God, or creator or if you prefer Natural Rights. What is clear is they are not Civil Rights.

spwright
1376
Points
spwright 10/31/11 - 02:13 pm
0
0
The $Rich$ get Richer & the Poor get Poorer 10/31/11

10/31/11 To brutally Honest here, I don't think anything is going to actually change in My LifeTime.

For My entire Life it's been THE RICH GET RICHER & THE POOR GET POORER & I have yet to see anything that is going to change that .

The Occupy Wall Street Movement sincerely needs a SINGLE MESSAGE & A SINGLE LEADER.

There are Too many Chiefs & NOT enough Indians with this Movement. A True Leader is sincerely needed.

The 1% & the Oakland Police have made the very Dumb Mistake of seriously injuring One of Our Own.

SCOTT OLSEN USMC Tue 10/25/2011

Just how intelligent is it for any organization to Injure & [filtered word] Off Highly Skilled & Experienced Combat Veterans ?
DUH ! What were they thinking ?
follow the "You did this to my brother" link & there are many sincerely up-set & angry Combat Veterans

Thanks for Listening SPW "Airborne"

the_postman
39
Points
the_postman 10/31/11 - 04:21 pm
0
0
SPWright

As I was explaining in a different Clarion online discussion, the Occupiers are beginning to organize and elect delegates. The brainstorming/idea-gathering part of this process was helped by the "leaderless" aspect of the movement. Now they will begin to try to organize and discern the right priorities. It will be interesting to see what they come up with. I hope that they aren't so radical that everyone will be alienated -- I hope that they are reasonable and achievable in this social context.

Ray, I really think there is a kernel of truth to some of the stuff you are saying. I'd like to explore your views on Natural Rights and how they are distinguished from Civil Rights.

And how is a constitutional republic set up? Who makes the laws? What are the checks and balances? Would it intrinsically be better than what we have now? I don't know the answers to these questions....

I completely agree with you about the devastating effect of the media on our society. We are completely brainwashed. Whenever you turn on the TV for entertainment, you pay a price; you're letting someone open up a branch office in your head and their job is to tell you what to think and feel. I haven't had TV in over 20 years.

Damn right, I know about Matewan -- it's one of the things that spurs me on. I've watched the John Sayles movie dozens of times and every time I do, it outrages me. And every time I drive north of Trinidad, Colorado, I stop in at the UMW memorial to the Ludlow coal miners and their families who were gunned down by thugs hired by old man Rockefeller. They mounted machine guns on a railroad flat car and cut down every living thing they could as they rolled passed the miners' encampment. I don't know that anyone was ever prosecuted for this massacre. Just like today -- you rarely hear of corporate exec's going to jail unless they screwed some other rich guy out of a bunch of money. They can pretty much do what they please to average folks with complete impunity.

Well, time to get out to Nikiski and get some chains for my ATV. Looks like snow....

Peace,

Eric

RaySouthwell
953
Points
RaySouthwell 10/31/11 - 11:27 pm
0
0
SPWright

Spwright,
We have had several discussions over many months. We do not always agree.

Do you support the OWS to protest? You spent many years in the military defending our Right of protest.

It is not important on whether you support their ideas. Do you support their Unalienable Right to protest?

Unfortunately, with leadership comes the opportunity for division. I clearly understand. Any time two people agree on everything either one or both are lying.

Thanks for the information Scott Olsen, more to research and share.

RaySouthwell
953
Points
RaySouthwell 10/31/11 - 11:32 pm
0
0
Eric, Civil Rights are given

Eric,

Civil Rights are given by the Civil Government. That which is given by government can be taken by Civil Government.

Un-a-lien-able Rights are given by God or are Natural. They cannot lawfully be taken by Civil Government.

This government was established as a Constitutional Republic.

It is suppose to be ruled by our elected Representatives (Republic) within the limits of our Constitution and those individual Unalienable Rights.

Originally Corporations were not allowed. The founders understood the failure of Free Market Capitalism. After a while corporations were allowed for only short periods of time for specific projects.

Then corporations were allowed. But were broke up if they became too large-(research Standard Oil or AT & T break up of 1974)

By the 80’s things started to change. Corporate mergers started to take place with the blessing of government.

In 1999 the final straw that broke the economic back of the world took place. This was the repeal of Glass-Steagall Act of 1933. It allowed the merger of Wall Street investment banks with Commercial Banks.

This one final act has brought us to the economic collapse we are in.

I turned off my TV over a year ago. I could not afford it after being fired.

I visited Matewan W. Virginia a few years ago saw the bullet holes in the buildings and walked where the Sherriff stood with the miners.

Thanks for the information about Ludlow miners. Much of our history has been lost to timed. I will now research more.

the_postman
39
Points
the_postman 10/31/11 - 11:38 pm
0
0
Wow!

Great letter, Ray! I agree with everything you just said. 100%
Just recently, I learned that up until not too long ago, corporations were forbidden but during one of the World Wars, they were allowed to form in order to expedite war production. These were facts I was just introduced to a week ago. I still have a lot to learn, too.

Eric Treider

RaySouthwell
953
Points
RaySouthwell 11/01/11 - 06:24 am
0
0
Goals

Eric,

We all have a lot to learn about our lost history.

In past posts you stated-“I believe in term limits, public financing of elections and a constitutional amendment to roll back "corporate personhood." Those are my personal goals.”

I agree. How do we accomplish these lofty goals?

spwright
1376
Points
spwright 11/01/11 - 06:55 am
0
0
Reply to Ray Tue 11/1/11

Thanks for the Reply. I think there is a misunderstanding about my Military Service.

I was a Low Life DRAFTEE about as Low as one can get in the Army pecking order. Drafted July 1969 served only 2 years as a Artillery Forward Observer RTO. The Grunt crawling around in the bushes w/ a big ole heavy Radio on his back. I did not serve numerous years in the Military.
From a Military Family w/ many Veterans. Father served 32 yrs.

Before I can continue with these conversations, I have to know where You Stand Ray Southwell with the Oklahoma City Bombing & Timothy McVeigh ? ?

Awaiting Your Reply & Thanks for Your Time

SPW "Airborne"

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