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There’s a reason for the 2nd Amendment

Posted: May 29, 2012 - 8:15am

Many of you keep weapons and have planned your response if a crack-high zombie goon, a murderous bear, or a thief threatens. Your threat to retaliate, having the means to do so provides safety, at least from those who are smart enough to know you will shoot. Even radio ads here in Alaska warn that homeowners are armed. The threat alone keeps the bad guys at bay.

But why are some people wrong to be just as afraid of agents from a government who they perceive are coming for them, their property or their children? "That's irrational fear," you say, but consider America in the 1770s when guns and the threat of using them stood alone against the tyrannical Crown government; and, when on April 19, 1775, a demonstration of that determination was witnessed for all the world to see and ponder. In different times and places in history, the gun symbolized the unspoken understanding that "if you aggress against me, you will die." For that very reason, the Gadsden Flag is emblazoned with a rattle snake rather than a lamb.

We can debate what a genuine threat might be, but does it matter? Shall we say there is no need to fear, regardless of the nature of the threat? Or, shall we just hope that someone else will stop the goons, bears, thieves, mad dogs, or even agents of a tyrannical government bent on destroying our life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness? Shall we try to negotiate with a marauding bear or a mad dog? I reckon not!

It appears that the central government would have us disarmed if they could, thinking it would promote its continuing consolidation of power. Barring that, the central government doesn't want us talking about defending ourselves against it. The Founding Fathers did more than talk. They declared that natural law requires free people bear arms to defend themselves and to organize themselves, logically to make the necessary plans to do so. If the Founders had no concern the federal government could grow tyrannical there would have been no reason to make the 2nd Amendment imperative. You may say that the central government cannot stop you from planning or thinking how to defend yourself against it, but they need not do that. All that is necessary is to convince you that their agents are no threat at all and that they are really there to help you.

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Raoulduke
3055
Points
Raoulduke 06/16/12 - 12:26 pm
1
0
Perception again

Ray! I believe that I have given you a concise explanation.I thought you would not misinterpret,or have perception difficulties.I am now getting the feeling that it will not matter how well I explain myself.You will not be satisfied.Unless I agree with you,and your militia group.Something I will NEVER do.You will continue to question my BELIEFS for which I had fought .I have given you all.I can give.If this does not satisfy.So! be it.I truly hope you get my message now.If not .Then you really should look at your behavior patterns.You need to read my post again.I DO NOT FEAR MY GOVERNMENT.I LOVE MY COUNTRY.As far as purchasing guns without limit.I also stated .I do not understand.Why anyone would need without limit.You have an unyielding belief in the defying my country with their unconstitutional courts,and unconstitutional Laws/rules.I have an unyielding belief that you would deserve whatever befalls you.

Carver
1133
Points
Carver 06/16/12 - 03:32 pm
1
0
As a man thinketh, so is he . . .

". . agents from a government . . coming for them, their property or their children . ."

". . the goons, . . or . . agents of a tyrannical government bent on destroying our life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness . ."

". . the central government would have us disarmed if they could . ."

". . the central government doesn't want us talking about defending ourselves against it . ."

—all from the letter-to-the-editor above
***********************

These militia-types simply cannot get it through their heads how differently from the rest of us they perceive reality.

They truly live in a different world than do the vast majority of the American people.

normolson
428
Points
normolson 06/16/12 - 06:02 pm
0
1
The Rest of Us???

"These militia-types simply cannot get it through their heads how differently from the rest of us they perceive reality."

. . .the rest of us. . .? Just who are the "rest of us"?

64% of Americans are frightened by the central government..
Do you really think all of those have departed from reality.

Perhaps it's just the way they perceive reality. In that case, it doesn't really matter who is right and who is wrong. I'll stay with the majority since I believe they are right to be frightened.

I too love my country, but I fear its government.

(Sounds like many of the Founders, huh?)

Carver
1133
Points
Carver 06/17/12 - 06:56 am
1
0
Fear, fear, fear, . . always fear . . .

"64% of Americans are frightened by the central government.."
*************

No, 100% of you militia-types are frightened and scared and terrified of your government.

Of the rest of us, 64% are merely more "concerned" about big government than we are about big business and big labor.

You militia-types make a mountain out of a mole hill by trying to project your fears on others. Your fears are real only for you, not for the rest of us.

RaySouthwell
1054
Points
RaySouthwell 06/17/12 - 08:44 am
0
1
Carver, Raoulduke, Norseman

You are correct. Everything is going to be OK. I just need to read different material.

My wife and I visited The Vietnam Traveling Memorial Wall yesterday. Why did we enter the war?

Our government lied to us and the 58,000+ young people lost their lives

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident

Our friends never became fathers. One died on his 19th birthday. I wonder if we can believe our government stories off the coast of Syria?

We looked up our friends on the Wall. I have visited the wall three times in my life. Twice in DC. This is the first time I could see the wall without crying.

It encourages me on why I fight with the IRS. Today, we are in wars based on lies, from what I read.

Our young people are expendable chattel to our government and its corporations that run it.

On the other hand. I hear it is a great weekend for sports- I think I will get a six pack and watch TV all day today and start reading how free we are compared to other countries. After all we must be free, I have over 100 TV channels to watch.

That’s it, I am going to stop reading things that concern the future and spend more time watching the TV and hearing how wonderful my government is.

Thanks you guys for helping me.

Carver
1133
Points
Carver 06/17/12 - 04:21 pm
1
0
You're welcome . . .

"Carver, . . You are correct. . . I just need to read different material. . . Thanks . ."
****************

Glad to help, Ray, and glad to hear it. A "Damascus-Road" experience, was it?

Let me recommend you begin by reading "An Eschatology of Victory" by J. Marcellus Kik:

Reader review
*****************
"For those Christians who think the world is going to get worse and worse, with the Church becoming more and more impotent, until we're all taken up by the so-called 'Rapture,' this book provides a seriously different, and more Biblical, perspective. It gives the clearest, most coherent interpretation of Matt. 24 I have ever read. I would like to challenge all dispensationalists to read this book and see if your perspective isn't changed."

Let me know when you're finished, pass it on to Sarge, and I'll recommend a few more good books.

spwright
1376
Points
spwright 06/18/12 - 05:34 pm
1
0
Militia GUILTY of 16 FELONY CHARGES 6/18/12

6/18/12 Go to K T U U Channel 2 NBC in Anc.

ALASKA PEACEMAKERS MILITIA found GUILTY
of 16 FELONY CHARGES.

SCHAEFFER COX
COLEMAN BARNEY
LONNIE VERNON

will be SENTENSED SEPT. 14th,2012

Next ! Norm & Ray Look Up ! keep watching that tiny little Glimmer in the Sky above your Militia Compound in Nikiski That is a Predator Drone watching each & every move You make.
Maybe It's time for You to Move onto another State.
SPW "Airborne"

Norseman
3593
Points
Norseman 06/18/12 - 07:23 pm
0
0
ANCHORAGE, Alaska— Alaska

ANCHORAGE, Alaska— Alaska Peacemakers Militia members, including leader Schaeffer Cox, listened Monday as a federal jury found them guilty of several federal charges, including conspiring to kill federal officials and illegally stockpiling weapons.
The jury found Schaeffer Cox, Coleman Barney and Lonnie Vernon all guilty of conspiring to possess unlicensed silencers and grenade parts, but not guilty of possessing firearms. Cox and Vernon were found guilty of conspiracy to commit murder, while Cox and Barney were found guilty of possessing grenade launchers and cartridges.

Cox was also found guilty of soliciting the murder of federal officials, as well as manufacturing and possessing silencers, possessing grenade parts and two counts of possessing machine guns. Barney was found not guilty of possessing grenade parts.

The jury also deadlocked on one count against Barney of conspiracy to commit murder, prompting District Court Judge Robert Bryan to declare a mistrial on the charge and ask that the partial verdict be read, despite requests from Cox’s attorneys to send the jury back for further deliberations.

Cox became angry as the verdict was read, telling jurors, "The prosecutors withheld evidence from you guys." He looked at his wife Marti Cox and cried as bailiffs led him away, refusing to speak with reporters.

Loudmouth ain't spewing domestic extremist propaganda now. He is just crying himself to sleep in his 6x8 cell.
Wonder what bob bird thinks of this "upcomer" now? After all, it was bob bird who introduced this whackjob to the peninsula. Lay with the dogs, you get the fleas.

Well yogi and boo boo, what does this tell you about the militias future?

Raoulduke
3055
Points
Raoulduke 06/18/12 - 09:58 pm
0
1
Rule of Law

I have read so much from militia folks in this post about Rule of Law.I hope.They are satisfied that Rule of Law worked.I also read in this post about unconstitutional courts.How can Rule of Law apply.If the courts are looked upon by some as unconstitutional?Sounds like there is some confusion in the camps of the militia,or the speakers for said groups.I guess.If your unhappy about somethings.You just brand it unconstitutional.But scream to the sky RULE of LAW.Most irrational behavior.OH! Yes! I am so glad our justice system works.

leewaytooo
2015
Points
leewaytooo 06/19/12 - 03:55 am
0
0
bed bug does the hokey pokey?

on deck.... the bed bug...

the bed bug has been brushing up on its dancing skills,
using mail order lessons.

"you put your right cheek in and shake it all about...
that's how you do the hokey pokey...."

in the hole.... the psychotic....

knock knock

Carver
1133
Points
Carver 06/19/12 - 06:24 am
1
1
A sad day . . .

How very, very sad . . the ruined and wasted lives, the decimated families . . and all for what?

Change must come, change will come, but these men chose the wrong path by which to effect change.

Very sad . . let it be a lesson for us all.

RaySouthwell
1054
Points
RaySouthwell 06/20/12 - 08:21 am
0
1
Carver

“Very sad...let it be a lesson for all of us.”

Pre-crime behavior of self preservation.

Fear, fear and more fear generated by the Federal Government.

And people wonder why so many fear our government.

RaySouthwell
1054
Points
RaySouthwell 06/20/12 - 08:26 am
0
0
Peaceful change

Ray G Southwell v. Commissioner of IRS
Docket no. 21117-11

Background-
IRS sent me a “NOTICE OF DEFICIENCY” on June 6, 2011 for tax years 2007 and 2008. I responded by taking the IRS to US Tax Court.

Tax Court June 18, 2012-Anchorage Alaska

Judge called me and the IRS to come forward. She asked why there were no “stipulation of facts” in this case.

IRS attorney stated I had not responded to the IRS “stipulation of facts.” Judge asked why I have not been in contact with the IRS, as she ordered.

My response- “I was in fear of the IRS and their unchecked power.”

She was angry at my response and told me that I better be in fear of her and her order, to talk with the IRS and decide on the “stipulation of facts.”

Pre-trial Hearing.

I refused to admit or deny any of IRS statements on the “stipulation of facts.” Judge referred to me as a Taxpayer. When it was my turn to speak I told her I preferred being called a Citizen. She told me she would call me a Taxpayer or by my name. Citizen is not a term to be used in this court. She asked me why I feared the IRS. I responded that they had the unchecked power to take 90% of my paycheck without any trial. She never asked me about this fear again.

Trial-
My opening statement. Talked about the Constitution and the Ninth and Tenth Amendments and my right to peacefully alter or abolish this government. Judge interrupted me several times and told me there is no Constitutional right not to pay your tax obligation. Most of my responses to questions from the judge or IRS attorney was “I neither admit or deny.” At one point the IRS attorney asked the judge, to order me to answer his questions. She warned me, she could order me to answer and place me in Contempt of Court for not answering. I never answered and she never placed me into Contempt. The IRS agent asked a barrage of questions and became angry about my refusal to answer his questions. I expressed my thoughts that a person is innocent until proven guilty and that the burden of proof is on the IRS. (Bill of Rights.) Judge told me, that right, is only on criminal cases and with these cases, in her court, the IRS is presumed to be correct, on the tax owed. I must prove my innocence. (the IRS has sent me some case law supporting the idea.) When did we lose the presumption of innocence in this Country? I also stated, I wanted the same protection that the Corporations get when they do not have to admit or deny anything. The judge stated I was wrong, that was only true in criminal prosecution.

Judge asked if I was married and I stated I neither admit or deny being married. She also asked if I had any other deductions-I responded I neither admit or deny any deductions.

She allowed me my closing statement and allowed me to almost finish, about how the country was established by the Declaration of Independence and later a government was formed under a Constitutional Republic. The first eight Amendments codified existing rights of the people and the Ninth and Tenth amendments referred to, other rights, retained by the people. One of those retained rights is the peoples right to alter or abolish this government as stated in the Declaration of Independence, peacefully by decreasing or stopping our financial support.

The IRS attorney asked for additional $25,000 fine. There was some discussion from the Judge and the IRS attorney about the money the IRS states is owed. I was not clear what they were talking about and will wait on the judges decision for my clarification.

I continue to wonder why I must pay more in Federal Income Taxes than corporations like GE, Exxon/Mobile, Bank of America, Chevron, Boeing, Citigroup, ConocoPhillips, and Goldman Sachs only had to pay 1.1% of their profit . What percentage of tax do you pay? The IRS wants more money from me and they have the power to take it and have. Who is in control of the USA?

See- what Senator Bernie Sanders said before the Senate about those mega-corporations and there non-payment of Federal Income Taxes. Some even got rebates from the IRS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sknt-UBRhxo
A Scandal
www.youtube.com
Senator Sanders' Top 10 Worst Corporate Income Tax Avoiders: http://1.usa.gov/ieadxt

Carver
1133
Points
Carver 06/20/12 - 10:36 am
1
1
Duh . . .

"I continue to wonder why I must pay more in Federal Income Taxes than corporations like GE, . . . . "
**************

Get a life, Ray, get a clue.

You can start by trying to figure out why you militia-types fear the government. The rest of us don't contrary to your incessant need to project your fears on us. Speak for yourselves.

Leave the rest of us alone. Don't presume to speak for us.

Raoulduke
3055
Points
Raoulduke 06/20/12 - 10:42 am
0
1
behavior

Pre-crime behavior?If conspiracy to kill government officials,and the acquisition of hand grenades/fuse is a self preservation act.No wonder the militia is in such a state of chaos,and trouble with the government.I really wonder other than the 3 militia defendants.What was the number of militia in the court room during the proceedings?Will the militia care for the families of these 3 men.They may for a short time,but the 3 will be forgotten.
9th Amendment -Confirms that people also have rights other than those mentioned in the Constitution.
10th Amendment-Declares that powers not delegated to the federal government belong to the states or to the people
I found no mention of abolish/alter peacefully by decreasing or stopping our financial support.The Constitution is a living document.Meaning it can be changed,and it has over the years.The Constitution have added more Amendments.One must read beyond the Declaration of Independence,or Bill of Rights.There is more to it than realized.Some people study the Declaration of Independence,and Bill of Rights.Then they stop.One must read the entire Constitutional amendments.the discoveries will surprise some.

mojo66
27
Points
mojo66 06/20/12 - 09:30 pm
2
0
answer me this raolduke, if

answer me this raolduke, if the 16th amendment is law then why hasn't artical 1 section 8 been repealed? ........ The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be UNIFORM throughout the United States. ..... heres the 16th...Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.... are those 2 laws binding?

RaySouthwell
1054
Points
RaySouthwell 06/21/12 - 07:53 am
1
0
Carver

Thanks for the advice. “get a life, get a clue.”

It is not my life that is important. It is the life of my grandchildren and neighborhood children I am concerned about. What kind of a government are we leaving them?

Thanks for the information concerning the book “An Eschatology of Victory" by J. Marcellus Kik

I am not concerned about the “Rapture” as much as the future for my grandchildren. I plan to read it in the future but have no time now. Peaceful change of government is more important.

Say, I wonder why the Associated press mentioned Cox’s father is a Baptist Minister. I thought about it a while and remember Cox told me he was home schooled by his parents. Norm and I grew up in Baptist churches. We met at a Baptist school where he taught my children.

Baptists believe in the “Rapture.” You state people who believe as I are-

“paranoid, Conspiracy theories-spouting hate-doom and gloom messianic complex-narcissistic diatribe-not interested in intelligent dialog- men like Jim Jones and David Koresh- ignorant rant-sky is falling malarkey-imagination fueled by your presuppositions- apocalyptic babble- Living in Loonieville- mentally demented, Doofus and nut-case.”

Could it be all Baptist’s are like Cox, Norm and I?

Why was Cox's father mentioned?

RaySouthwell
1054
Points
RaySouthwell 06/21/12 - 08:03 am
0
0
Raoulduke

And people say I am a “conspiracy theorist.”

When was Cox going to carry out the “conspiracy?” Where was the plan? Was he caught trying to light his underwear on fire?

Who were the witnesses? Government paid informants.

I wonder why the government did not play the tape where Fulton tried to get me and others talking about things that I refused to talk about. He claimed he worked for “Blackwater” in Iraq and made a ton of money there. That alone should have disqualified him given Blackwater’s history. After I was fired from CPH he told me he could hook me up with “Blackwater,” and I could make a ton of money.
And the government used him as a credible informant.

My conspiracies have more credible informants.

Did you see this one from Economics professors Reinhart and Roghoff ? An article called “Growth in time of Debt.” I quote from the article-

“We examine the experience of 44 countries spanning up to two centuries of data on central government debt, inflation and growth. Our main finding is that across both advanced countries and emerging markets, high debt/GDP levels (90 percent and above) are associated with notably lower growth outcomes. As countries hit debt tolerance ceilings, market interest rates can begin to rise quite suddenly, forcing painful adjustment.”

Sere the entire report here-
http://www.economics.harvard.edu/files/faculty/51_Growth_in_Time_Debt_aer.pdf

Our Debt level to GDP in the USA is over 100%. Interest rates are lowest in our history. Interest paid on the National debt is close to a half a trillion dollars/year. I recently read an article that called the USA “Greece on steroids.”
The USA has about 22% of the global GDP and most of that is in speculative financing. Greece has less than 1% of the global GDP.

We cannot borrow our way out of the economic failures. Printing of more money using QE3 will not help because it is going into the speculative financing causing a bigger bubble than in 2007. That is why those banks “too big to fail.” are bigger today than in 2008.

When the current speculative economic bubble pops, this time, entire countries will default on there debt.

What then for the USA?

RaySouthwell
1054
Points
RaySouthwell 06/21/12 - 08:11 am
0
0
Mojo66

Thanks for the 16th Amendment quote. I did not read that Income Tax is mandatory.

Did the 16th Amendment eliminate the peoples peaceful altering or abolishing of government as a right documented in the Declaration of Independence? A just government would give the people all peaceful alternatives to change.

Isn’t the Income Tax based on voluntary compliance?

Regardless of the 16th Amendment, the people always retain the right to throw off the shackles of slavery, I just hope it can be done peacefully.

Raoulduke
3055
Points
Raoulduke 06/21/12 - 10:43 am
0
0
binding

YES!

Carver
1133
Points
Carver 06/22/12 - 06:40 am
1
0
Nice try . . .

"Carver, Baptists believe in the 'Rapture' . . Could it be all Baptist’s are like Cox, Norm and I?"
***************

Nice try, Ray, but that's all a steer can do . . just kiddin'.

As for your question . . dunno . . haven't met all Baptists, but the Baptists I do know are a far cry from you, Sarge, and a convicted felon.

Read the book . .

Proverbs 6:16-19

RaySouthwell
1054
Points
RaySouthwell 06/22/12 - 07:16 am
0
1
Carver

Here is one more as reported by the Alaska Dispatch. Cox’s second in command. An ordained minister. You guessed it a Baptist.

http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/security-guard-who-handcuffed-alaska-journalist-faces-militiamen-federal-court

Are you suggesting you cannot judge all people of a certain belief based on the behavior of a few.

You are starting to evolve. As a child, I placed all black people in the same group based on the behavior of a few. I finally understood my prejudices when I grew up

Are you starting to recognize your prejudices?

Carver
1133
Points
Carver 06/26/12 - 07:00 am
1
0
Give it a rest, Ray . . .

This has become boring, Ray . . time to go.

If you ever want to engage in serious discussion, something beyond your tried-and-true militia soundbites, look me up on the other forum.

Ta-ta, ciao, sayonara, auf wiedersehen, and all that . . .

kksalm
235
Points
kksalm 06/27/12 - 11:20 pm
0
1
Can't we all just get along?

Oh well. I for one, am glad Carver said ta ta so succinctly like.
Good riddance IMO. Willing to get along as I was.
Here's someone to really sink our teeth into.
http://www.benchmarkemail.com/c/v?e=1B5BF4&c=1BD0F&l=2451ED8&email=KR3d2njB5X70%2B6muznp7KAif8GG0Zxj9&relid=4C4A98BC
That Cindy Sheehan! Google Cindy Sheehans Soapbox if the link didn't come through. In case the name isn't familiar she got mad when her soldier son was killed.
She sure has some gall, or does she? Pretty much what we've been discussing here.
I personally believe she's a modern day made in America hero.
It's pretty clear she doesn't trust her government. Read her web site, she's a Mom and she's talking the talk.
Have a wonderful day

RaySouthwell
1054
Points
RaySouthwell 07/07/12 - 07:46 am
0
0
kksalm
235
Points
kksalm 07/08/12 - 12:09 am
0
0
Re, well... that extremist guy...

Hi Ray, I clicked on your link and got a commercial. Here's another try. I think the author has a little credibility.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/25/opinion/americas-shameful-human-rights-record.html
Cheers, and have a nice day

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