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There’s a reason for the 2nd Amendment

Posted: May 29, 2012 - 8:15am

Many of you keep weapons and have planned your response if a crack-high zombie goon, a murderous bear, or a thief threatens. Your threat to retaliate, having the means to do so provides safety, at least from those who are smart enough to know you will shoot. Even radio ads here in Alaska warn that homeowners are armed. The threat alone keeps the bad guys at bay.

But why are some people wrong to be just as afraid of agents from a government who they perceive are coming for them, their property or their children? "That's irrational fear," you say, but consider America in the 1770s when guns and the threat of using them stood alone against the tyrannical Crown government; and, when on April 19, 1775, a demonstration of that determination was witnessed for all the world to see and ponder. In different times and places in history, the gun symbolized the unspoken understanding that "if you aggress against me, you will die." For that very reason, the Gadsden Flag is emblazoned with a rattle snake rather than a lamb.

We can debate what a genuine threat might be, but does it matter? Shall we say there is no need to fear, regardless of the nature of the threat? Or, shall we just hope that someone else will stop the goons, bears, thieves, mad dogs, or even agents of a tyrannical government bent on destroying our life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness? Shall we try to negotiate with a marauding bear or a mad dog? I reckon not!

It appears that the central government would have us disarmed if they could, thinking it would promote its continuing consolidation of power. Barring that, the central government doesn't want us talking about defending ourselves against it. The Founding Fathers did more than talk. They declared that natural law requires free people bear arms to defend themselves and to organize themselves, logically to make the necessary plans to do so. If the Founders had no concern the federal government could grow tyrannical there would have been no reason to make the 2nd Amendment imperative. You may say that the central government cannot stop you from planning or thinking how to defend yourself against it, but they need not do that. All that is necessary is to convince you that their agents are no threat at all and that they are really there to help you.

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RaySouthwell
953
Points
RaySouthwell 06/04/12 - 08:31 am
1
1
All

My daughter is married to a Navy pilot. She is the mother of four of my grandchildren. In April of 1996, when she was 16, she wrote this poem for English class. It best describes my motivation of love.

RGS
No one understands him,
Guns and all,
Willing to give his life,
to defend his country
He is a good man,
husband and father.
No one realizes,
how much he cares.
Works day and night,
to keep us free.
People shun him,
say he’s lost his mind,
still he goes on,
knowing, if he ever stopped,
Children pay,
for the sins of their fathers

Norseman
2843
Points
Norseman 06/04/12 - 10:30 am
2
0
Fighting side of Me by Merle

Fighting side of Me by Merle haggard.

I hear people talkin' bad,
About the way we have to live here in this country,
Harpin' on the wars we fight,
An' gripin' 'bout the way things oughta be.
An' I don't mind 'em switchin' sides,
An' standin' up for things they believe in.
When they're runnin' down my country, man,
They're walkin' on the fightin' side of me.
Yeah, walkin' on the fightin' side of me.
Runnin' down the way of life,
Our fightin' men have fought and died to keep.
If you don't love it, leave it:
Let this song I'm singin' be a warnin'.
If you're runnin' down my country, man,
You're walkin' on the fightin' side of me.

I read about some squirrely guy,
Who claims, he just don't believe in fightin'.
An' I wonder just how long,
The rest of us can count on bein' free.
They love our milk an' honey,
But they preach about some other way of livin'.
When they're runnin' down my country, hoss,
They're walkin' on the fightin' side of me.

Yeah, walkin' on the fightin' side of me.
Runnin' down the way of life,
Our fightin' men have fought and died to keep.
If you don't love it, leave it:
Let this song I'm singin' be a warnin'.
If you're runnin' down my country, man,
You're walkin' on the fightin' side of me.

Yeah, walkin' on the fightin' side of me.
Runnin' down the way of life,
Our fightin' men have fought and died to keep.
If you don't love it, leave it:
Let this song I'm singin' be a warnin'.
If you're runnin' down my country, man,
You're walkin' on the fightin' side of me.

Raoulduke
2607
Points
Raoulduke 06/04/12 - 01:46 pm
0
0
truth

I find it impossible to be able to speak the truth from the bible.When the bible does nothing more than self contradict.Which has driven some to the point of insanity.So! I figure the reader has to find THEIR truth in what they read.What is truth for some is not truth for another.

Carver
1106
Points
Carver 06/04/12 - 04:50 pm
1
0
Good advice then, better advice now . . .

"Above all, be conscientiously cautious of busying yourself with the affairs of state. Many indulge themselves in great impertinency in this respect; that affect to have a profound knowledge of politics; to be acquainted with private negotiations, and the secret springs of action; to which are often added rash censures of what they do not understand. They can find some fault in every measure of their governors; can tell to whose ignorance or unfaithfulness every disappointment was owing; or to gratify whose pride or revenge this or that step was taken, or law made. By this means they not only [commit] great folly, but divert others from their proper business, and set them against the most prudent or even necessary measures..."
---Richard Steele, "The Religious Tradesman," 1747

As Solomon said, there's nuthin new under the sun . .

ALASKADEB
13
Points
ALASKADEB 06/04/12 - 10:23 pm
0
1
THERE'S A REASON FOR THE 2ND AMENDMENT

I'M FROM THE GOVERNMENT AND I AM HERE TO HELP YOU....THE CHECK IS IN THE MAIL, AND I DIDN'T ....

I WAS ALWAYS TOLD THESE WERE THE 3 BIGGEST LIES I COULD EVER HEAR....

SEMPER FI FROM A VERY PROUD ARMY BRAT, MARINE WIFE, AND MILITARY MOM...DEBBIE..

Carver
1106
Points
Carver 06/05/12 - 08:10 am
1
0
Speak with forked tongue?

If our government is not here to help us, why would anyone be proud to be employed by the government?

If our government is not here to be of service to the citizens, why would anyone want to be part of the military?

If our government is tyrannical and "bent on destroying our life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness," why would anyone want to be an "agent" of such a government?

Sorry . . don't understand . . what am I missing here?

RaySouthwell
953
Points
RaySouthwell 06/05/12 - 08:28 am
0
1
Carver

I think it is about the money. Government jobs have always been secure and have a great retirement.

Our culture is wrapped up in money. It is our love of money that is bringing down the global economic system.

Our founders understood mans fallen condition and codified an existing right of self defense in the Second Amendment.

Those that serve in the military, do so in their belief of helping the country. I think there is an old Merle Haggard song about God,Country and Wars.

Carver
1106
Points
Carver 06/05/12 - 11:22 am
1
0
Fear, fear, and more fear . . .

Ray, don't you guys ever get tired of selling fear, of endlessly repeating some "sky-is-falling" malarkey? Wake up and smell the roses.

A collapse of the global economic system? Government boogey-men? What must it be like to live in such a spirit of fear and apprehension!

"FEAR drives the militia. Not duty, Not vision, Not even Love.

"FEAR of tyranny and oppression fuels the militia. FEAR of losing your life or your freedom drives the militia. FEAR of the fed hammering on your door at 0300 hrs drives the militia. FEAR of the fed confiscating your bank account and threatening your with poverty fuels the militia." —Commander, Alaska Citizens Militia

Still waiting for you—Norm's welcome too—to show up on the international forum I recommended earlier . . some of those folks would really enjoy hearing from real-life, American militia types.

Raoulduke
2607
Points
Raoulduke 06/05/12 - 02:31 pm
1
1
retirement

I have met,and known military retirees.Who served for the sole purpose of being able to retire after doing a job for 20 years.Which in the private sector is not feasible.Yes! They served their country in the rear -REMF's.You know who you are. But then want to take up arms against the hand that feeds them.Some of the laziest people I have ever met were in the military.Just doing enough to not get kicked out.I understand that today.The military will discharge a lot more readily than in my day.It had all to do with early retirement not patriotism.

Suss
3059
Points
Suss 06/05/12 - 08:17 pm
1
0
LIFERS

We have had way too many "Lifers" (Lazy Incompetent F off's Expecting Retirement) that could not carry their overweight humps. But for a few RIF's they would have died in their chairs. Those that have served go on and live life, those that slacked, half stepped and were worthless are still talking their talk. Worse yet are the non combat disability claimers, they really are the ones that make one puke.

spwright
1376
Points
spwright 06/05/12 - 07:46 pm
1
0
Lifers vs Professional Soldier

6/5/12 Well I was just a "low life Draftee" lower than Whale
S____ in the Army Pecking Order.

70% of those that served in "The Nam" were Draftees
35,000 Single American Males ages 18 thru 40 were Drafted into the Army & Marine Corps per month 1967-1971

But I learned immediately the difference between the Professional Soldier. A Soldier that will "Take a Bullet' for You & do His Very Best to Teach You How to Survive,
Complete Your Mission & Come Home Alive.

& the Lifers & their only concern was Me, Me & Me
To Hell with You It's All about ME.

Speaking of a Professional. Make the Time to read about
Sgt. Tom McRae USMC E O D "Wounded Juneau MARINE"
This will Make You Proud ! Semper Fi MARINES

SPW "Airborne"

kksalm
227
Points
kksalm 06/05/12 - 08:57 pm
0
0
Getting back to the subject

There is a reason for the second amendment.
Several actually.
Thanks for the reminder Norm.
Peace, out. Have a wonderful day, no exceptions.

Watchman on the Wall
2893
Points
Watchman on the Wall 06/05/12 - 10:42 pm
0
0
NorsemanYou ain't Merle haggard and

Norseman you ain't Merle Haggard, and real life situations ain't no song, so stop singing like you care about others please, when in reality you only want to control others by intimidation and slander and rebutal of the truth & reality of life. True life that a blind deaf person could see & hear by whats going on all around us world wide and would warn others to help them prepare to avoid trouble.
Every one has an agenda, even you and if others don't agree with some of those, you and a few others, then they are deemed nutjobs or fruitcakes religious whaco's or worse for being differant & really caring about others and warning about the BS being shoved down our throats daily by Govt. and people like you that only want to deceive & control.
As i have warned a Civil war is coming or a Revolution and it's all in accord with Gods promises for the last days which will end this era of time we are now in.
We wanted God removed from every aspect of our lives here in america, well get ready as God has removed that protective hedge from around america and 911 was just the first of whats coming Our way soon.
Norm, Ray and others are trying to help people prepare for that coming Union of One which is not gonna be a pretty thing for any one and all some do is make fun of reality wanting others to go down with the sinking ship your on.
So who will be the nutjobs when reality hits the Home of the Brave and the Land of the free bringing us all to our knees as Slaves to the man that owns the company stores? It will not be Norm or Ray or any one else that tried to warn of the coming troubles and tried to get people to prepare like their lives depended on it, which they do. No it will be people like Norseman & Carver and a few others that have no Hope or Answers for the future, and hate all of us that do and wish to destroy the message of preparing for the coming troubles.
You few have absolutely no message of worth or value to help any one advance in life or sustain life in the coming days of Americas distruction by godless men & women that only seek treasures of this life.
I truly pity you that have no Hope other that the one which men promise, a hopeless hope & fundamental change to believe in which never comes thru, never ever.
Don't prepare, it's your free choice for ETERNITY.

ALASKADEB
13
Points
ALASKADEB 06/07/12 - 02:58 am
0
0
MY "2-CENTS" RIGHT, WRONG , OR INDIFFERENT

WATCHMAN, THANK YOU FOR YOUR REPLY TO ME I APPRECIATE IT, AND YOU WERE THE ONLY ONE THAT EVEN ACKNOWLEDGED I HAD SAID ANYTHING.

I SPENT HOURS DEBATING ON WHETHER TO WRITE ANYTHING AT ALL. I SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER THOUGH. I DID ANSWER THE QUESTIONS THAT "MY FORKED TONGUE" WAS ASKED..

I REALIZED THIS IS A PISSING CONTEST BTW CARVER AND RAY WITH SOME INPUT FROM NORM, AND A FEW OTHERS INCLUDING YOU. I AM NOT INTERESTED IN "PISSING CONTESTS" AS MY MARINE HUSBAND CALLS IT, AND YOU SURE WOULD NOT WANT TO HEAR WHAT HE HAD TO SAY ABOUT SOME OF THE COMMENTS MADE ABOUT SERVICEMEN AND SERVICEWOMAN FROM ANY TIME FRAME OR WAR ON THIS POST.
THANKS FOR GIVING UP A PIECE OF THE CLARION FOR A DAY..
I'M DONE NOW..HAVE AT IT..KIND OF FUNNY I ACTUALLY KNOW SOME OF THE PEOPLE IN THIS DEBATE, AND THEY DON'T SEEM TO KNOW ME..
MAYBE IT'S BETTER THAT WAY.
SEMPER FI TO ANYONE WHO RESPECTS AND SUPPORTS OUR TROOPS
"AS MY MARINE BUDDY WHO DIED FOR HIS COUNTRY SAID, "IF YOU DON'T WANT TO STAND WITH THE TROOPS...PLEASE STAND IN FRONT OF THEM"
HAVE A GREAT NIGHT
DEBBIE

Raoulduke
2607
Points
Raoulduke 06/06/12 - 05:20 am
0
0
knowing the difference

I served in the Nam as a combat medic with the 25th ID.I know the difference between a shiftless SOB,and a comrade in arms.I was a volunteer,and if I knew then what I know now.I would have been a door gunner.Medic's got swatted down like flies.I was fortunate.I came home.I seen valor from many draftees as well as the RA's.I am honored to have known them all.I also knew some very shiftless ******.Who did not even fire a round.I honor those that did their jobs in the field.I do feel stronger for a combat troop.Than a non combat troop.I think it is only natural.I have never found anyone to this day that comes close to summing up the term BROTHERHOOD.I guess there will be some vets who would disagree.I will just assume they were not in the sh**.

Raoulduke
2607
Points
Raoulduke 06/06/12 - 05:20 am
0
0
knowing the difference

I served in the Nam as a combat medic with the 25th ID.I know the difference between a shiftless SOB,and a comrade in arms.I was a volunteer,and if I knew then what I know now.I would have been a door gunner.Medic's got swatted down like flies.I was fortunate.I came home.I seen valor from many draftees as well as the RA's.I am honored to have known them all.I also knew some very shiftless ******.Who did not even fire a round.I honor those that did their jobs in the field.I do feel stronger for a combat troop.Than a non combat troop.I think it is only natural.I have never found anyone to this day that comes close to summing up the term BROTHERHOOD.I guess there will be some vets who would disagree.I will just assume they were not in the sh**.

Raoulduke
2607
Points
Raoulduke 06/06/12 - 05:31 am
0
0
Beliefs

I will not quote any scripture for it is one's individual belief.I do not condemn anyone for their beliefs of a supernatural.I would not presume to know what a god is thinking.I hear it all is judgement after death.If there be such an entity,and judgement.So!What.I will be dead.Biological beings do not live after death.Proven fact.

Carver
1106
Points
Carver 06/06/12 - 07:02 am
1
0
Lies and false witness!

". . people like . . Carver . . that have no Hope or Answers for the future, and hate all of us that do and wish to destroy the message of preparing for the coming troubles. You few have absolutely no message of worth or value to help any one advance in life or sustain life . ."
******************

Nasty, slanderous lies garbed in pietistic religiosity and a premillennial eschatology.

You have no idea what I believe or whom I hate or don't hate. You don't know because you haven't asked. Why would you make such ignorant accusations?

If you want to discuss these sorts of issues, sign on this forum: http://www.onthenatureofthings.net/forum/index.php and I'll meet you there.

Still waiting for Ray to show up on that forum.

Raoulduke
2607
Points
Raoulduke 06/06/12 - 07:18 am
0
0
Merle

He sure got patriotic after being pardoned by then Governor Ronald Reagan for his felonious crimes.Merle also went on to make a great deal of money playing at patriotism with a country twang to the songs.I am not saying he wasn't a good musician. He was just a pardoned felon.A person I could not pay my money to hear,or see.

Carver
1106
Points
Carver 06/06/12 - 08:16 am
1
0
Wow!

From apocalyptic babble about arming ourselves against the government to Merle Haggard's prison record, . . .

Hup, two, three, four . . . . :-)

spwright
1376
Points
spwright 06/06/12 - 08:21 am
0
0
Welcome Home Raoulduke

6/6/12 "D-Day"
RAOULDUKE, Welcome Home Soldier Welcome Home
& Thank You for Your Service Sir.

I have a older Brother that served w/ the 101st Airborne
at a Combat Hospital at Camp Sally & EARNED his COMBAT MEDIC'S BADGE

& Yes YOU are so very Correct. We ALL BLEED RED
AMERICAN BLOOD. either Regular Army Volunteers or
Army Draftees.

All "Grunts" have the greatest Love & R E S P E C T
for MEDICS.

SPW "Airborne"

RaySouthwell
953
Points
RaySouthwell 06/06/12 - 08:55 am
0
0
Carver

That is truly were we differ.

I have studied economics and look around the globe on what is happening. I believe you have done the same.

Our difference is our belief in government. It is made up of people who are driven by their own self interest, resulting in failure for We The People.

Many believe, as I do, and recognize they must be prepared.

Do you see any need to prepare, to care for yourself?

RaySouthwell
953
Points
RaySouthwell 06/06/12 - 09:03 am
0
0
Raoulduke

My daughter-in-law served for twenty years in the Navy.

Ten years enlisted and ten years as an officer.

She is one of the brightest people I know. She has her masters degree. When she retired from the Navy she walked into a job that paid more than she ever made while serving our country.

I disagree with your evaluation of our military.

RaySouthwell
953
Points
RaySouthwell 06/06/12 - 09:27 am
0
0
Carver

My wife’s first love served in Vietnam.

Years ago, I told a liberal friend about him receiving the Congressional Medal of Honor. He responded “he must have killed many enemy.” I said no, he saved many by jumping on a hand grenade (after being shot) because of the love he had for his fellow soldiers.

Why do we believe someone with a gun must hate others. Perhaps they are driven with love for others.

Carver
1106
Points
Carver 06/06/12 - 09:33 am
1
0
Ain't goin; there, Ray . . .

"Carver, Our difference is our belief in government. . . "
**************

Not even close. Forget it . . you haven't a clue as to where we differ because you don't know what I believe, and you don't know what I believe because you haven't asked. You rudely presume to know what I think.

Ray, and I'm not getting into that subject with you here. You have an open invitation to another forum where I will discuss such matters with you or with Norm or whomever. Register on that forum, and state your case. We'll go from there.

If you have the stomach for it . . . ;-)

Norseman
2843
Points
Norseman 06/06/12 - 09:39 am
0
0
hypocrites

I listened to your fellow militia member Cox explaining he was like ghandi and that the miltia is loving and peacefull. He even cried on the witness stand to show his inner, more softer side. Cried because of packing up his wife's wedding dress as he was trying to flee to another country because the goon squad was going to assasinate him. I wonder if his wife cried when he was arrested for domestic violence for hitting her?
Seems the militia think they can talk about how loving and peacefull they are while they stockpile land mines, grenades, and create hit lists.
I think the correct word here is hypocrite.

Just wolves in sheeps clothing.....

RaySouthwell
953
Points
RaySouthwell 06/06/12 - 09:42 am
0
0
Carver

Whats wrong with this forum. I am here and you continue to have dialog. I am more interested in having a discussion with people in my community than with people around the world.

So, here we go. What do you believe and think?

Carver
1106
Points
Carver 06/06/12 - 09:49 am
1
0
Not even love . . .

"Why do we believe someone with a gun must hate others. Perhaps they are driven with love for others."
**************

"FEAR drives the militia. Not duty, Not vision, Not even Love." —Commander, Alaska Citizens Milita

"The militia must keep it's fierce countenance. It must never hide its determination or its weapons." —Commander, Alaska Citizens Militia

"Shake the gun in the tyrant's face . . To quote Scripture, 'If possible live at peace with all men.' to that I add, '. . .and if not, load with the largest caliber you can.'" —Commander, Alaska Citizens Militia

Carver
1106
Points
Carver 06/06/12 - 11:11 am
1
0
Nope . . .

"Carver, Whats wrong with this forum. . ."
**************

There are things I need to say that I can't say here. One cannot link to Internet reference sources here, nor can one include graphics. This format is far too limited for the kind of discussion needed. This format is unsuited for anything other than short, sound-bite exchanges.

Moreover, I am extremely uncomfortable with you and Norm trying to guess my identity and get me to reveal myself.

Anyone here who cares to can join in the discussion on the other forum. Besides, here's your chance to take the Militia Movement worldwide . . on the other forum we have Brits, Canadians, Portuguese, Romanians, Americans, Burmese, Japanese to name a few, and we have Jews, Muslims, Christians, Atheists, and Agnostics. If things are really coming apart at the seams worldwide like you say, you should find an audience all ears . . expect a little flak though, most are pretty sharp people . . but you're used to that . . no hill for a climber.

As I see it, Ray, you guys are not interested in serious, principled discussion, only in a pulpit from which to spew your tried-and-true, apocalyptic sound-bites of the-sky-is-falling, guns, and hate. Now are you game or not? You talk the talk . . can you walk the walk?

Watchman on the Wall
2893
Points
Watchman on the Wall 06/06/12 - 11:47 am
0
0
Everyones a hypocrite to someone

Every one is a hypocrite or a truther to someone or a traiter or a hero so there in lies the problem with mankind and our desire to fight for what WE Think is right or wrong and who is to judge which??
My feeling is when one American is restricted from OUR Constitutional rights then we all must realize that we, who ever we are might be next in the removal of OUR Rights as a Soverign People under the Constitution which the Govt. now wants to Fundamentally change.
As for OUR Troops past & present lets be clear about one thing they are not fighting for OUR Freedoms since WWII.
OUR Troops have been fighting for the money hungry power controlers world wide ever since WWII. Make no mistake about it i APPRECIATE ALL of OUR Troops and their desire to serve, my son included for the past 15+ years. If we we're fighting for Freedom then we would most certainly get-r-done with no trouble in doing so as the Most Powerful nation on Earth all in accordance to Gods plans, not ours.
We have people that could very eazily put on those Blue UN hats any day now and stand against Americans & OUR Freedom. My question is this will you pledge allegiance to America or to the UN? The time is very near when everyone will have to decide and we can already see a few that will fight against Americas Freedoms for the coming One World Orders Union of One.

AlaskaDeb Thanks for your posts & i understand the ALL Caps thingy as i used to do the same and the Blog Police wanted me shoot for doing so. But thats Freedom for ya and shows that there are many that seek to take even our typing of words away from us or use them against us for their control of others desire.
EVERYONE HAS AN AGENDA AND IS A HYPOCRITE TO SOMEONE NO MATTER WHAT WE BELIEVE IN EITHER TRUE OR FALSE.

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