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There’s a reason for the 2nd Amendment

Posted: May 29, 2012 - 8:15am

Many of you keep weapons and have planned your response if a crack-high zombie goon, a murderous bear, or a thief threatens. Your threat to retaliate, having the means to do so provides safety, at least from those who are smart enough to know you will shoot. Even radio ads here in Alaska warn that homeowners are armed. The threat alone keeps the bad guys at bay.

But why are some people wrong to be just as afraid of agents from a government who they perceive are coming for them, their property or their children? "That's irrational fear," you say, but consider America in the 1770s when guns and the threat of using them stood alone against the tyrannical Crown government; and, when on April 19, 1775, a demonstration of that determination was witnessed for all the world to see and ponder. In different times and places in history, the gun symbolized the unspoken understanding that "if you aggress against me, you will die." For that very reason, the Gadsden Flag is emblazoned with a rattle snake rather than a lamb.

We can debate what a genuine threat might be, but does it matter? Shall we say there is no need to fear, regardless of the nature of the threat? Or, shall we just hope that someone else will stop the goons, bears, thieves, mad dogs, or even agents of a tyrannical government bent on destroying our life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness? Shall we try to negotiate with a marauding bear or a mad dog? I reckon not!

It appears that the central government would have us disarmed if they could, thinking it would promote its continuing consolidation of power. Barring that, the central government doesn't want us talking about defending ourselves against it. The Founding Fathers did more than talk. They declared that natural law requires free people bear arms to defend themselves and to organize themselves, logically to make the necessary plans to do so. If the Founders had no concern the federal government could grow tyrannical there would have been no reason to make the 2nd Amendment imperative. You may say that the central government cannot stop you from planning or thinking how to defend yourself against it, but they need not do that. All that is necessary is to convince you that their agents are no threat at all and that they are really there to help you.

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Carver
1129
Points
Carver 06/06/12 - 02:27 pm
3
0
Over your waders, Ray . . .

Carver, I have studied economics and look around the globe on what is happening.
*****************

Ray, your statement above informs us all about the world in which you live, a world of your own imagination fueled by your presuppositions. In this complex world of global finance where not even a Nobel Prize winner like Paul Krugman and an international financier like George Soros can agree on what's happening, why, and what to do about it, you know the score? Do tell! No, Ray, your lack of humility is matched only by your lack of academic education.

Better to say with the Psalmist:

"My heart is not proud, Lord,
my eyes are not haughty;
I do not concern myself with great matters
or things too wonderful for me.
But I have calmed and quieted myself,
I am like a weaned child with its mother;
like a weaned child I am content."

You see what you want and need to see . . you see what your presuppositions mandate that you see. Others, the vast majority of us, see the very same things you do, but we interpret them differently and live quiet lives of hope and joy and peace, not anxious lives of fear, apprehension, and guns.

Wake up and smell the roses . .

RaySouthwell
953
Points
RaySouthwell 06/06/12 - 09:07 pm
0
1
Carver

Say, did you read the advertisement from our local attorney Eric Derleth- “Tipping point”

I quote Mr. Derleth- “Today, the two candidate for President of the United States reflect this by refusing to purpose any of the major changes necessary to help our country survive, let alone thrive.

Probably as you stated more “apocalyptic Babble”

RaySouthwell
953
Points
RaySouthwell 06/06/12 - 09:26 pm
0
1
Carver

I enjoy being over my waders. I will be in Tax Court on the 18th and will be well over my waders.

It is my belief that if you search for the truth you will find it. I have been looking for the economic truth of our failed system for years. I had all these pieces but did not understand it until I read a couple of books by Economics Professor Richard Werner.

Dr. Werner explains things so clearly that even I understand them.

Go ahead, ask me what needs to be done.

You might be interested in this article about George Soros

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/special-report-george-soros-godfather-of-the-left/

kksalm
232
Points
kksalm 06/07/12 - 01:37 am
0
1
Just a tool of the establishment

There's no way I'd take up Carver's invitation to engage discourse on the link he (she) provided.Carver's statement that this forum can't provide links is false,
"There are things I need to say that I can't say here. One cannot link to Internet reference sources here, nor can one include graphics"
How about going here?
http://endthelie.com/2012/06/05/the-u-s-military-is-operating-drones-domestically-and-sharing-data-with-law-enforcement/...
You can click on the blue field, it's like footnotes.
I wonder at having to engage Carver in any kind of discussion. There seems to be a need for conflict and an undercurrent of "I'm not going there" unless it's at some questionable forum of international origin.
Some people just love having the art to engage. It was all pretty predictable from the beginning of the 90 plus comments spawned from Norm's original statement "There's a reason for the 2nd amendment".
Whatever. Have a wonderful day.

RaySouthwell
953
Points
RaySouthwell 06/07/12 - 04:52 am
0
1
RaySouthwell
953
Points
RaySouthwell 06/07/12 - 04:56 am
0
1
Carver

More from Italy-widows of suicide victims march in protest.

But the banks get bailed out for their foolishness.
One quote from the article-

“Suicides among small-scale businessmen crippled by a combination of unpaid invoices, a credit squeeze and a rising tax burden have become an unwelcome consequence of economic crisis across parts of southern Europe.”

Read about this "apocalyptic Babble" here

http://af.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idAFTRE84314Z20120504

leewaytooo
1866
Points
leewaytooo 06/07/12 - 05:19 am
1
0
tax court wins bedbugs lose

dont go bedbug, dont go.
tell the tax court via bb-mail,
that you didnt pay taxes for 15 yrs
cuz you b savin up for j-day.
an u b thinking that j-day is
just round that corner.
claim it is ur right to play at
ur religion and u been
givin up ur money to the psychotic.
that'l work, dont u think.. oh, wait.
maybe the ? shd be asked of the psychotic,
as it does the ponderin.
just b sure to print the psychotics
fav slogan on ur shirt.....

"the only thing that timothy did wrong was to
get caught".

that'l b sur to get u some browni shirt pts.
do u think they might put u in the pokey??
dont worry be happy.. u be hit on all the time, for everyone likes themselves some bb fun.

11 days to go, woo hoo......

Carver
1129
Points
Carver 06/07/12 - 06:01 am
1
0
Read my lips . . . :-)

Carver, did you read . .
Carver, go ahead ask me . .
Carver, more . .
Carver, more from Italy . .
*************

You know where to find me if you're serious. Your choice.

RaySouthwell
953
Points
RaySouthwell 06/07/12 - 06:09 am
0
1
Lewaytoooo

I could not figure out what you were talking about, sorry.

I did figure out the “pokey” part. Probably jail or execution.

After all, how dare a human person, believe they should be paying the same Federal Income Tax as Corporate persons like GE, ExxonMobil, Bank of America, Chevron, Boeing, and my favorite Citigroup. They paid no Federal Income Taxes according to Senator Bernie Sanders and had rebates from the IRS.

Why do I have to pay more?

Watch Senator Sanders presentation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sknt-UBRhxo

RaySouthwell
953
Points
RaySouthwell 06/07/12 - 06:25 am
0
1
Carver

As a child I use to play baseball with other kids. If the one who owned the ball was unhappy with the game they took their ball and went home.

I enjoyed the game, here. Sorry, I didn’t mean to run you off.

Carver
1129
Points
Carver 06/07/12 - 07:05 am
1
0
Too funny . . . :-)

"Carver, . . Sorry, I didn’t mean to run you off."
***************

Run me off? Dream on, Ray, dream on.

I did post the Commander's letter over on the other forum and will keep y'all posted if it generates any interesting comment.

Raoulduke
3055
Points
Raoulduke 06/07/12 - 07:19 am
1
0
paying your dues

A true patriot/citizen does their share deemed necessary by the government.They pay their taxes i.e. for the military that protects their freedoms.they do not sit back and have someone else do it for them.these types are called parasites.No better than any fraudulent disability claimant.Practice the patriotism claimed.Not to mention the citizenship,and responsibilities that go hand in hand with said citizenship.

Carver
1129
Points
Carver 06/07/12 - 07:36 am
1
0
Living in Looneyville . . .

A true "patriot"? To such people, THEY are the true patriots, they simply do not live in the same world as the rest of us. The government is out to get us all, the government is evil, it's all a big plot to enslave us, world order is collapsing, the end is near, yadda, yadda, yadda. They and they alone are the Intelligentsia, the Cognoscenti, the Ones-Who-Know, and the rest of us are stupid dupes, sheep-willing-to-be-shorn, yadda, yadda, yadda.

Too funny . . .

Carver
1129
Points
Carver 06/07/12 - 09:22 am
1
0
Commentary . . .

—from the other forum:

"At a certain point armed revolution is the only corrective, but most would agree that this isn't the case in America. People advocating it at this point are usually too lazy/stupid to try and operate within the existing system. Plus the fantasy appeal of imagining yourself gunning down the servants of a fascist regime like in some video game, rather than sitting in a town hall waiting to vote on a zoning issue." —posted by a Canadian lawyer, a Muslim.

Alyosha
3
Points
Alyosha 06/07/12 - 09:41 am
1
0
Odd...

It occurred to me, that, even in the context of the Founding Fathers' rebellion against England, you didn't see them looking for hidden conspiracies, and mysterious powers lurking in shadows. They weren't working on the intellectual fringe, with undeveloped arguments, seeing boogie men no one else could see.

MEN like John Adams or George Washington, led open lives, engaged in YEARS of meaningful dialogue, worked within the existing system at the highest levels, and produced VOLUMES of highly cogent intellectual arguments. They built on a tradition of thought that had been running since the bloodless revolution of 1688 and beyond. They worked for years before resorting to violence, but even when they did, it was out in the open and well within the scope of the issues at hand. There was nothing secret about what they were doing.

If the apostle Paul is to be believed, our government is put here by God to restrain evil; if Christ is to be believed, those that live by the sword will die by it. The American Rebellion is what it is, vis á vis Paul and Christ --- but whatever the moral standing of the Founding Fathers, they were both intellectually prepared to step in with a cogent solution, and willing to do so openly and accept the consequences.

In contrast we have pathetic, paranoid excuses for "revolutionaries" who exist on whispers of conspiracies and murderous anti-Christian, Marxist ideologies. They have no cogent historical/intellectual tradition other than the tradition of Robespierre, de Sade, Machiavelli, or Marx -- to use terror or murder to advance a comically unexamined premise. People who, despite Christ's assurance that "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven" use the Bible to see an apocalypse behind every bush, and twist the sacred scripture to advance murder or terror in preparation for it. Rather than being busy at their work, showing Christ-like behavior, they have fouled the name of Christianity. The Founding Fathers have literally nothing in common with these pathetic excuse for "revolutionaries".

As it is written: "God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you."

Carver
1129
Points
Carver 06/07/12 - 09:57 am
1
0
Not run off yet . . . ;-)

"......But why are some people wrong to be just as afraid of agents from a government who they perceive are coming for them, their property or their children? "That's irrational fear," you say, but consider America in the 1770s when guns and the threat of using them stood alone against the tyrannical Crown government; and, when on April 19, 1775, a demonstration of that determination was witnessed for all the world to see and ponder. In different times and places in history, the gun symbolized the unspoken understanding that "if you aggress against me, you will die." For that very reason, the Gadsden Flag is emblazoned with a rattle snake rather than a lamb........" —from the Commander's letter
***************************
***************************

Commentary from the other forum:

"Because guns will do nothing where trust, order and society does not apply. Let's not misunderstand the Rebellion. It was a deliberate movement of one organised and mature nation with resources against another. It was not some bleedin' home invasion. No state government gets up in the morning with something up its arse and decides to become tyrannical. The people go rotten and their leaders reflect that, especially in a democratic and representational republic. Nobody needs be impressed with mere belligerence. People with bones in their noses will insure you die should you be aggressive towards them, however they would define it. Well armed and living in stinking poverty, oh yeah..... I'm in the lap of liberty, that....'>........."

normolson
393
Points
normolson 06/07/12 - 02:00 pm
0
1
Back To Basics?

I've really enjoyed reading all the blogsters' posts, spanning such important asides as the worth of country singers to who has the best service record.
I'd invite y'all to read my letter again. The question was WHY people are afraid of the federal government (more than half by several polls, among them: http://www.gallup.com/poll/151490/Fear-Big-Government-Near-Record-Level.aspx) and what they are doing to protect against it.
Frankly, I'm disappointed that blogsters who tout their intellect don't want to engage the question.
Are 64% of Americans irrationally fearful of big government? Since they are afraid (rationally or irrationally) can anyone fault them of planning to defend against the threat, whether real or imaginary? And, in order to protect oneself, is it wrong to say, "if you hit me, I'll hit you back, but with a bigger stick"?
It is easy to attack the messenger and avoid the message, but the message doesn't seem to go away. Just google something like "Americans Fear Government" and check all the polls.
The 2nd Amendment stands. The Founders knew that it must stand if people were to remain free. They knew perfectly the nature of man and wisely created checks and balances and separate branches in order to create a first line of defense against tyranny. The militia of the people stands as the last line.
And, as far as the Founders being conspiracy theorists, consider Patrick Henry's "Give Me Liberty" speech. He speaks of several conspiracies he sees mounting.
No, as much as wishful thinkers desire, the militia is not going away. It is growing and becoming stronger, more covert and more clandestine with each central government effort to stop it. As I have said, "it is fear that really fuels the militia: fear of tyranny, oppression, life, liberty, just law)
That they are fearful cannot be debated, but WHY are people frightened of the central government? And SINCE they are, are they wrong to plan a defense against it?
"Just go vote," some say. Well, that isn't working very well, is it? In fact, people HAVE participated in changing government by the ballot box, but what has changed? All we get is more crooks and cronies. What has participating in the civil, peaceful, and lawful method of changing government got them? If 64% of Amercians fear big government why do only 30% vote? Why does Congress have a less-than-25% job approval rating?
It is easier to attack the messenger because he/she personally has no defense. The message, however, is avoided because it speaks for itself.
The militia will not go away. It is alive and well and growing in strength and determination every day, thanks to federal opposition to it.

normolson
393
Points
normolson 06/07/12 - 02:08 pm
0
1
For Some Clarity

The Militia Movement--From Where I Stand
By Norman Olson, Co-Founder, Michigan Militia

Writers across the country have attempted to write about the militia phenomenon. With rare exception, none have grasped the gravity of the problem facing America. Numerous articles have attempted to give a glimpse inside the movement, but alas, a look at the militia movement through the confines of a newspaper journalist's narrow vantage is much like looking at a vast landscape through a keyhole. One may focus on a small aspect, only to miss the vastness and expanse of the movement.

Suffice it to say that anyone trying to put the militia movement into a framework will fail. There are few parameters with which to measure the breadth and depth of the movement. Failing this, what remains? How will the general public-at-large be given a useful glass through which to see what is happening in this, the greatest civil rights movement of this century?

In order to provide understanding, we must go back to basics. Many have concluded that the militia was spawned by misdirected individuals driven by paranoia. Others conclude that the militia are an emerging army of jingoistic nationalists bent on fostering the master race. But again, every time someone tries to define the movement, they must admit that they ignore the whole while focusing on the part--a part that is oftentimes incorrect. The ranchers of the west don't give a hoot about the New World Order and the East Coast Manhattan Island militia could care less about the Idaho biosphere police who want to stop all elk hunting for fear the bullets will cause lead poisoning of trees. And you can bet the African American militia in Detroit couldn't care less about the NRA’s worry that the guns might be taken away. So everyone tries to package the item, but finds that it has no real shape. What then is the common denominator?

I'll answer that question in a minute, but before I do, I think it best to prepare readers with the grim reality that we are marching to widespread civil unrest. Out of that unrest will come either tyranny or anarchy. We don't need conspiracy theories to trouble us. The reality of the Federal Government’s tyranny ought to do the job. And, if that doesn’t work, think of our land consumed by lawlessness, marauding gangs, severe shortages, and great peril.

But so what? All the discussion about the abuses of the Central Government merely restates the problem; and, restating the problem while avoiding a discussion on the effect leaves only one other area left to be discussed: The catalyst that will bring the revolution. That, friends, is a bubbling caldron about to boil over; and, while smiling faces ramble on about the effect, few are sober thinking enough to consider the cause.

Allow then an insight to the dynamic energy that caused the phenomenal effect we call the Militia Movement. While you read, keep in mind that the common people of the soil will grow stronger with every tread of the oppressor's boot. None can talk us out of existence! No slick bureaucrat can reason with us as long as we are being thrown off our land. No politician can comfort us as long as corruption robs the bread from our children's mouth. No judge can rule in our favor as long as courts are filled with injustice and where juries are bound and gagged. No petty politician can placate us while they heap more licenses, fees, permits, restrictions, and restrains on our effort at capital enterprise. No indeed! For you see, we feed on the tyrant's abuse of us and grow strong on his oppression. The more the power brokers try to stop us, the stronger we become and as one falls, ten more rise. The reality that all Americans must deal with is that revolution is coming and soon. The people have had enough!

Because of the corruption the disaffection and feeling of estrangement grows. And from those multitudes emerges the militants. To stop them, the hand-wringing politicians use the press to demonize the militia and the media to support their disinformation campaign against the militia to keep their office, in turn promising to make laws prohibiting the militia. But their solution only causes greater oppression and repression of expression and liberty and the pursuit of happiness. In order to make the supposed situation better, they only make it worse.

But what of the legality and the lawfulness of the militia. Ought we not look at the basic elements of the fuel that runs the engine? Raise the question in your own mind, "Is the citizen militia legitimate and lawful?" Our Governor, the Lawmakers, and others say no. You've heard their lies. Now here are the facts:

The Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution recognizes the inherent right of states to form militia units. That amendment reads:
"A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Not only does the Constitution allow the formation of a Federal military, it specifically recognizes state militias, and confirms that the citizen and his personal armaments are the foundation of the citizen militia. The arming of the militia is not left to the state but to the citizen. Should the state choose to arm its citizen militia, it is free to do so under the United States Constitution (bearing in mind that the Constitution is not a document limiting the citizen, but rather one that establishes and limits the power of government). Should the state fail to arm its citizen militia, the right of the people to keep and bear arms becomes the source of the guarantee that the state will not be found defenseless in the presence of a threat to its security. It makes no sense whatsoever to look to the Constitution of the United States or that of any state for permission to form a citizen militia.

Logic demands that the power to grant permission is also the power to deny permission. Brought to its logical conclusion in this case, a state may deny the citizen the right to form a militia. If this were to happen, the state would assert itself as the principle of the contract making the people the agents. Liberty then would be dependent on the state's grant of liberty. Such a concept is foreign to American thought. While the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution acknowledges the existence of state militias and recognizes their necessity for the security of a free state and while it also recognizes that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, the Second Amendment is not the source of the right to form a militia nor to keep and bear arms. Those rights existed in the states prior to the formation of the federal union. In fact, the right to form militias and to keep and bear arms existed from antiquity. The enumeration of those rights in the Constitution only underscores their natural occurrence and importance. The Tenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution reads:
"The Powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

Ultimate power over the militia is not delegated to the United States by the Constitution nor to the states, but resides with the people. Consequently, the power of the militia remains in the hands of the people. Again, the fundamental function of the militia in society remains with the people. Therefore, the Second Amendment recognizes that the militia's existence and the security of the state rests ultimately in the people who volunteer their persons to constitute the militia and their arms to supply its firepower. The primary defense of the state rests with the citizen militia bearing its own arms. Fundamentally, it is not the state that defends the people, but the people who defend the state. The secondary defense of the state consists in the statutory organization known as the National Guard. Whereas the National Guard is solely the creation of statutory law, the militia derives its existence from the inherent inalienable rights of man which existed before the Constitution and whose importance are such that they merited specific recognition in that document. While the National Guard came into existence as a result of legislative activity, the militia existed before there was a nation or a constitutional form of government. The militia consisting of people owning and bearing personal weapons is the very authority out of which the United States Constitution grew. This point must be emphasized. Neither the citizen's militia nor the citizen's private arsenal can be an appropriate subject for federal legislation or regulation. It was the armed militia of the American colonies whose own efforts ultimately led to the establishment of the United States of America! While some say that the right to keep and bear arms is granted to Americans by the Constitution, just the opposite is true. The federal government itself is the child of the armed citizen. We the people are the parent of the child we call government. The increasing amount of federal encroachment into the territory of the Second Amendment in particular and the Bill of Rights in general indicates the need for parental corrective action. In short, the federal government needs a good spanking to make it behave.

One other important point needs to be made. Since the Constitution is the limiting document upon the government, the government cannot become greater than the granting power, that is the servant cannot become greater than his master. Therefore, should the Chief Executive or other branch of government, or all branches together act to suspend the Constitution under a rule of martial law, all power granted to government would be canceled and defer back to the granting power, the people. Martial law shall not be possible in this country as long as the people recognize the Bill of Rights as inalienable. The present actions of this country's government have been to convince Americans that the Bill of Rights controls the people. The Bill of Rights has nothing to do with control of the people, nor control of the government established by the people. The Bill of Rights stands as immutable and unaffected by any change determined upon the Constitution by government.

It is in the Bill of Rights that we see the inherent right of citizen militias, vested in the people, to bear arms. The organizing and support of a state sponsored militia of the state is a power granted to the Governor. This fact is further supported by Art. I, §7, "The military shall in all cases and at all times be in strict subordination to the civil power." But which military? It cannot be the citizen militia since the agent of a contract can hold, but cannot control the principle. Therefore, the military spoken of is the military force permitted to be formed by the state, which is the National Guard. Neither can it be the citizen militia because, like the Federal Constitution, the Constitution of Alaska is the child of vested power reserved to the people forever. There is no possible way that the Governor of this State or the Chief Executive of the United States, or any legislative body can "outlaw" the citizen's militia for to do so would rob inherent power from the people and thereby transform the limited Constitutional Republic to a government controlled state. If that were to happen, our entire form of government would cease.

There is, I might add, a serious defect in the Alaska State Constitution. Article 12, Section 8, reads:
Residual Power. The enumeration of specified power in this constitution shall not be construed as limiting the powers of the State.” What this means is that our State Constitution does not limit the government of this State. Unlike the federal Constitution, which is a limiting document, giving specific enumerated and limited powers to the federal government, the State constitution gives the State unlimited powers. This threat alone is impetus enough to impel citizens to be on guard. That guard must be the people, formed together into a citizens militia, able to resist the uncontrolled power of the State.

How than can the citizen militia be controlled? In simplest terms, it cannot be. It is the natural occurrence of the people who gather to defend against a perceived threat. Historically, citizen militias emerge when a clear and present danger exists, threatening the well-being of the people. It would stand to reason that power granted to the Governor to form a militia for the security of the people is intended to reduce the need for the citizen militia. Simply, if the National Guard did it's job in securing the state, the citizen militia would not emerge. That it has emerged so dramatically seems to indicate that the people do not feel secure. Nor can the people be given promises of security. Well-being is not measured by promise, but by experience. Surely our experience has been that security is lacking, hence the emergence of the citizen militia. When safety and security are reestablished in America, the citizen militia will return to its natural place, resident within the body of the people, only to emerge again when security is threatened. Security is the common desire of all mankind. We can no more control the militia than we can change the nature of men. For their safety and security, people everywhere will form militia if and when necessary.

By now it should be clear that the militia predates state and federal constitutions. Its right to exist among the citizenry cannot be subjected to legal challenge. The only effective challenge to citizen militias would be political engineering. One may envision an effort to amend both the state and federal constitution specifically abolishing the right for citizens to form militia units. Should such a venture be dared, the natural need of the citizens militia would increase, actually drawing more free people to it. By now also, one should draw the conclusion that the militia is inherent to all social, interactive people concerned about the well-being of fellow citizens. This conclusion is that which is so clearly stated in the Bill of Rights. No man-made law can abolish the citizen militia since such a law would be in fact an unlawful act designed to dissolve power vested in the people. Such an effort would reveal an intent of any tyrant to transform limited government created by the people into a government limiting the people. Most tyrants know that such a move must be well timed. It is no wonder then, that power-hungry central government and groomed courts view the Second Amendment as applying only to organized militias, i.e. armies of the individual states, that is, the National Guard. Tyrants dare not admit that the people themselves are the militia. Why? Simply because tyrants will not admit that there exists something they cannot control. Good people will obey good laws, but they will not be controlled by bad ones.

To summarize: Citizen militias are historic lawful entities predating all federal and state constitutions. Such militias are "grand-fathered" into the very system of government they created as clearly revealed in both the Constitution of the United States and that of Michigan. These constitutions grant no right to form militias, but merely recognize the existing natural right of all people to defend and protect themselves. The governments created out of well armed and free people are to be constantly obedient to the people. Any attempt to take the means of freedom from the people is an act of rebellion against the people. Currently in Alaska, the citizen militia is subject only to the historic role of American militias as defined in Black's Law Dictionary:
Militia: The body of citizens in a state, enrolled for discipline as a military force, but not engaged in actual service except in emergencies, as distinguished from regular troops or a standing army.

In order to conform to this definition, and to remain able to oppose a rebellious and disobedient government, the citizen militia must not be connected in any way with that government lest the body politic loose its fearful countenance as the only sure threat to a government bent on converting free people into slaves.

So you see, the militia movement is much like the weather. You may talk about it all you want, but you cannot change what is coming. The corruption continues because the media is more concerned about movie stars than leaving to their children a land of honest government and honest courts. And while the true rulers of this land (We the People) fiddle with our amusements and distractions, enjoying the temporary bread and circus mood that now grips the land, the liberties so dear to our forebears, burn and become ashes. And sadly, as surely as an epitaph engraved on the tomb of the Late, Great United States of America, we allowed it happen. We walked into the night without ever knowing what had happened.

Concerned Americans are putting away food and seed and provisions. Many are buying silver coin and gold to be used when the Federal Reserve's groundless money system collapses. Still others are forming communities to survive the coming crash and ensuing chaos. Thinking people are preparing and planning. Call them crazy, call them weirdos, but never call them shortsighted. Their's is a more practical survival plan than that of the money-mongers of Wall Street or the corrupted politicians in Washington.

Only time will tell who was right and who was wrong; but, if those so-called clowns and wannabes of the militia are wrong, they've missed nothing. But if they are right, perhaps they alone will survive the catastrophe soon to fall upon this land.

Collapse will most certainty come to America. Just servicing the enormous debt alone now consumes more than half of our nation’s output. We are floundering economically and will soon drown in our own debt. That alone ought to give us pause. And certainly the misguided trust in the man who occupies the White House ought to convince us that his empty promises and the corruption that surrounds him are a recipe for social disaster. But still greater in scope and scale is what apparently is to follow; for, unless there is a miraculous spiritual and moral change in the attitude of this nation, armed revolution seems inevitable. Nothing can stop it. And so we prepare.

That, my friends, is what the militia is all about.

Carver
1129
Points
Carver 06/07/12 - 02:28 pm
1
1
Extremism in America . . .

The Militia Movement Today
http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/militia_m.asp?xpicked=4&item=19

The militia movement is the youngest of the major right-wing anti-government movements in the United States (the sovereign citizen movement and the tax protest movement are the two others) yet it has seared itself into the American consciousness as virtually no other fringe movement has. The publicity given to militia groups in the wake of the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995, when the militia movement was erroneously linked to that tragedy, made them into a household name. Even comedian David Letterman frequently joked about the militia; in 1999, for instance, his list, "Top Ten Signs You're Watching a Bad Disney Movie," included "It's called 'The Little Right-Wing Militia That Could.'" Indeed, reporters, pundits and politicians alike have used the term so frequently that it is often tossed about carelessly as a synonym for virtually any right-wing extremist group.

Yet the militia movement is neither generic nor dismissible as a comic subject. If militia groups were not, in fact, involved with the Oklahoma City bombing, they have nevertheless embroiled themselves since 1994 in a variety of other bombing plots, conspiracies and serious violations of law. Their extreme anti-government ideology, along with their elaborate conspiracy theories and fascination with weaponry and paramilitary organization, lead many members of militia groups to act out in ways that justify the concerns expressed about them by public officials, law enforcement and the general public.

Origins and Ideology: Seventeen Little Children

In a sense, the militia movement is both old and new. On the one hand, militia groups are the latest in a series of periodic flings the extreme right has had with paramilitary organizations. On the other hand, however, the militia movement formed under a unique set of circum-stances that gave the movement a character, orientation and purpose distinct from its prede-cessors.

The extreme right in the United States has long had a fascination with paramilitary groups. Before World War II, right-wing and fascist groups such as the Silver Shirt Legion and the Christian Front marched across America. Later, the Cold War ushered in a new wave of paramilitary organizations like the California Rangers and the Minutemen. In the 1980s, survivalists and white supremacists formed a variety of paramilitary groups ranging from the Christian Patriot-Defense League to the Texas Emergency Reserve to the White Patriot Party.

The militia movement is heir to the right-wing paramilitary tradition, but it is heir, too, to another tradition, the anti-government ideology of groups like the Posse Comitatus. The Posse developed an elaborate conspiratorial view of American history and government, one that claimed the legitimate government had been subverted by conspirators and replaced with an illegitimate, tyrannical government. Posse members believed that the people had the power and responsibility to "take back" the government, through force of arms if necessary. As a result, many Posse figures engaged in paramilitary training. Most notable among these was William Potter Gale, a Christian Identity minister who was one of the founders of the Posse. In the 1980s, he appointed himself "chief of staff" to the "Unorganized Militia" of a group known as the Committee of the States. Gale's appropriation of the term "unorganized militia" is significant; it is a statutory term in federal and state law that refers to the nominal manpower pool created a century ago when federal law formally abandoned compulsory militia service. In using the term, Gale implied that his organization was not only legal but that it was, in fact, a constitutional arm of the government. This argument would be amplified by later militia proponents (Gale himself died in the late 1980s) who claimed that militia groups were: (a) equivalent to the statutory militia; (b) not, however, controlled by the government; and (c) in fact, designed to oppose the government should it become tyrannical.

What turned the concept into reality in the early 1990s was a series of catalysts that angered people on the extreme right sufficiently to start a new movement. Although some militia movement pioneers had been active in other anti-government or hate groups earlier, most militia leaders were in fact new leaders, people who only recently had been so motivated that they were willing to take action. The events that angered them ranged from the election of Bill Clinton to the Rodney King riots to the passage of the North American Free Trade Agreement. More than any other issue, though, the deadly standoffs at Ruby Ridge, Idaho, in 1992 and Waco, Texas, in 1993 ignited widespread passion. To most Americans, these events were tragedies, but to the extreme right, they were examples of a government willing to stop at nothing to stamp out people who refused to conform. Right-wing folk singers like Carl Klang memorialized the children who died at Waco with songs like "Seventeen Little Children." These events provided new life to a number of extremist movements, from Christian Identity activists to sovereign citizens, but they also propelled the creation of an entirely new movement consisting of armed militia groups formed to prevent another Ruby Ridge or Waco.

The fact that both the Ruby Ridge and Waco incidents involved illegal firearms added considerable fuel to the fire that formed the militia movement. Many militia members and leaders were radical gun-rights advocates, people who believed that, in fact, there could be no such things as illegal firearms and whose anti-government ire was formed in large part because of fear and suspicion of imminent gun confiscation. In the early 1990s, several prototype militias had emerged in Connecticut and Florida on the basis that members of the "militia" were exempt from federal gun laws. In 1992, Larry Pratt, leader of a radical gun- rights group and an advocate of the formation of militias, issued a statement in the wake of the Rodney King riots urging the Los Angeles Police Department to "take advantage of what the Founding Fathers called the unorganized militia" in order to forestall further unrest. Many people initially joined the fledgling militia movement largely as a way to protect more aggressively their right to bear arms; even today, gun-related issues dominate many of the newsletters published by militia groups.

The final element forming the militia movement was a vast fascination with conspiracies. Conspiracies were easy to accept for people who believed that the federal government deliberately murdered people at Ruby Ridge and Waco and that door-to-door gun confiscation could begin any day. But the militia movement not only accepted the traditional conspiracy theories, it created a host of new ones; combined, they described a shadowy movement intent on creating a one-world socialist government no matter what the cost. This "New World Order," using the United Nations as its primary tool, had already taken over most of the planet. The United States was still a bastion of freedom, but its own government was collaborating with New World Order forces to strip Americans slowly of their freedoms in preparation for the final takeover. The government was erecting large numbers of concentration camps in which to place American dissenters; meanwhile, the number of United Nations troops secretly encamped in national parks grew by the month. Stickers on the backs of street signs would guide the New World Order to strategic points, while the authorities enlisted urban street gangs to help enforce gun confiscation. "The Federal government and the press is [sic] fighting a war against independent thinking Christian patriots," wrote Christian Identity adherent and militia supporter George Eaton in 1993. "The reason they have targeted patriots is simple; they will not conform or submit to the New World Order."

The combination of anger at the government, fear of gun confiscation and susceptibility to elaborate conspiracy theories is what formed the core of the militia movement's ideology. Although there were white supremacists in the movement, and although groups and individuals within the movement often made common cause with or at least tolerated hate groups, the orientation of the militia movement remained primarily anti-government and conspiratorial. The militia movement appealed to many radical libertarians just as it appealed to traditional proponents of extreme right-wing causes. There was room even for African American militia leaders like J. J. Johnson of Ohio and Leroy Crenshaw of Massachusetts, whose shared anti-government views allowed them to break bread with racist and anti-Semitic adherents of Christian Identity. —John Trochmann

Carver
1129
Points
Carver 06/07/12 - 02:49 pm
1
1
Just go away . . . :-)

The militia-movement "mentality" (read "the sky is falling," "they're out to get us," etc.) is nothing new and has been a permanent fixture at the far right, radical fringe of any social order . . nothing new there. The militia-movement mentality is not growing, it consists of maybe 50,000 people nationwide, less than the number of Roman Catholic nuns in the country.

Disaster preparedness is nothing new to Alaskans and is not something the Commander brought with him from Michigan. Alaskans prepared themselves for possible disaster long before the Commander came along. Nor is sound economic policy like paying off debt and saving money anything new to Alaskans with good sense.

The militia movement mentality tries to capitalize on normal, everyday concerns, on social unrest, and on political disagreement with cheap, sound-bite sloganeering. The militia-movement mentality creates more dissent than they're worth . . as is witnessed by this thread of commentary. That they take themselves seriously is astounding . . no one else does . . :-)

Raoulduke
3055
Points
Raoulduke 06/07/12 - 02:53 pm
1
0
defense

Read in the Anchorage paper today.The defense stated Cox was just all talk,and no action.Just as expected-HOT AIR.

spwright
1376
Points
spwright 06/07/12 - 03:00 pm
0
1
What the ?

I just fell Asleep just scrolling down to the bottom of all of this
Bull S_ _ _

Shut Up Already

normolson
393
Points
normolson 06/07/12 - 03:01 pm
0
1
Thank You For The Article

My friend, John Trochmann, expounded on the complexity of the militia and the depth of committment to the idea of planning to defend against big government.
The basic premise remains: Why are people frightened enough of the central government to join paramilitiary groups opposed to its abuses of power? That seems to be the question to be avoided.
Trochmann has expanded on my point that trying to package the citizens militia is impossible, and that by trying to stop it, the fedgov only compels its growth and determination. But one single truth remains as a common denominator throughout the militia in America: The Central Government IS and ALWAYS HAS BEEN and WILL BE a threat to liberty. The Founders thought so and penned the 2nd Amendment in response so that the People would be remineded of their natural right to defend themselves against that threat.
Thank you for the article. It underscores the valid points of my own.

Carver
1129
Points
Carver 06/07/12 - 03:12 pm
1
1
Militia mentality nothing new—only the actors are new . . .

"If militia groups were not, in fact, involved with the Oklahoma City bombing, they have nevertheless embroiled themselves since 1994 in a variety of other bombing plots, conspiracies and serious violations of law. Their extreme anti-government ideology, along with their elaborate conspiracy theories and fascination with weaponry and paramilitary organization, lead many members of militia groups to act out in ways that justify the concerns expressed about them by public officials, law enforcement and the general public."

"The extreme right in the United States has long had a fascination with paramilitary groups. Before World War II, right-wing and fascist groups such as the Silver Shirt Legion and the Christian Front marched across America. Later, the Cold War ushered in a new wave of paramilitary organizations like the California Rangers and the Minutemen. In the 1980s, survivalists and white supremacists formed a variety of paramilitary groups ranging from the Christian Patriot-Defense League to the Texas Emergency Reserve to the White Patriot Party."

"The militia movement is heir to the right-wing paramilitary tradition, but it is heir, too, to another tradition, the anti-government ideology of groups like the Posse Comitatus. The Posse developed an elaborate conspiratorial view of American history and government, one that claimed the legitimate government had been subverted by conspirators and replaced with an illegitimate, tyrannical government."

—John Trochmann

Raoulduke
3055
Points
Raoulduke 06/07/12 - 03:16 pm
1
0
Living document

The Constitution is a living document meaning that it can be changed by vote of majority of states- WE THE PEOPLE i.e.Prohibiton.There has been many additions--amendments to the constitution.So! Whatever one believes.The Constitution can be changed with a states majority.Again WE THE People.Like it ,or not.that is the way it is.

Carver
1129
Points
Carver 06/07/12 - 03:37 pm
1
1
Selling fear . . .

The militia mentality is a mentality of fear as the Commander has made plain over and over again—fear of the government, fear of conspiracies, fear of whatever, and the way to get people to buy into the militia mentality is to sell them a big dose of fear. Harp on fear endlessly, repeat fear incessantly, reiterate fear over and over and over. Fear is the product-line the militia mentality is selling. It's evident right here in this string of commentary—fear, fear, fear, over and over again.

Fear, fear, fear is what the militia is all about. Fear and nothing but fear is what informs, motivates, and drives the militia mentality.

I ain't buying it . . . ;-)

normolson
393
Points
normolson 06/07/12 - 08:42 pm
0
1
Selling fear???

Have you reviewed the many polls taken among ordinary people across the land to see that there is a real fear among people of the central government?
How do you explain that more than half of Americans IN EVERY POLL are frightened of their own government. Is the militia that influential that it can gin up that kind of fear in that many people?
People are frightened because of the abuses of the central government.... not because of what the militia does or doesn't do. The militia (if you took time to read my essay) is the NATURAL response to a perceived sense of danger. The militia is not the cause of fear, it is the natural reaction to it.

Carver
1129
Points
Carver 06/07/12 - 09:00 pm
1
1
Fear, fear, and more fear . . .

". . fear among people of the central government. . frightened of their own government. . . fear in that many people . . People are frightened . . a perceived sense of danger. . . the cause of fear, . . .
****************

And the beat goes on and on and on and on . . fear, fear, fear, and yet more fear.

Fear is the militia mentality's stock in trade; fear is what the militia mentality sells.

It's phony, and I ain't buyin' . . .

Watchman on the Wall
2893
Points
Watchman on the Wall 06/07/12 - 10:04 pm
0
0
"Ya Can't Fix Stupid"

Norm & Ray please listen to what Ron "Tater Salad" White the commedian has to say about some people that just won't listen or learn, he says "Ya Can't Fix Stupid."
You can talk till the Rapture and some will not listen to anything you say in an effort to warn them of the coming troubles & One World Govt. that God promised would come in the Last Days. Scripture even says that these stupid ones will cry for the mountains to fall on them and kill them so they don't have to listen to or acknowledge God. Now thats stupid for ya and it can't be fixed even with all our talk & warnings of the coming troubles world wide.
It's Peter that talks about these folks that make fun of those that are looking at the signs & warning others that Gods judgements are very near in 2 Peter 3:3-9. These ones are the blind leading the blind & they will all fall in the ditch of distruction due to unbelief and rejection of the warning signs all around them being proclaimed by a few of us.
As for the supposed Fear tactics you Norm are supposedly spreading that are being proclaimed by some, i would just say what Gods word says about Fear. Fear God and live. But these same folks that claim you are spreading Fear also say the very same things about Gods word and his promises of Judgement against all that reject his word and will not listen to those that try and warn of the coming judgements against all the ungodly.
They say that God is love and will not judge anyone and that those that preach such things are only spreading Fear & lies. Yes God is love, he is also a rightious God that demands rightiousness & justice & will judge all that break his rules/laws which are simply that they accept Jesus Gods only way fo a get out of hell free payment. Jesus is Gods love, but mankind rejects his love so what is is there for him to do except demand payment for sins/unlawful acts against others & him?
It's 2012 and this really could be the Beginning of a New Era of time as 89 differant ancient societies have said, but first comes the judgement or purging out of the bad before the New can start over. Fire always purges out the worthless & produces new growth, always.
All i know is that if you are depending on men for your answers or protection for anything this world affords then you are already in major troubles and the likelyhood of you listening to any warnings of the coming judgements against the One World Order and it's subjects are almost impossible.
But as long as your alive i guess there is still Hope, that is if you Hope in the True Hope & Fundamental Change to Believe in which is Jesus Christ alone. John 3:16,36.
16 talks about the love of God, 36 talks about the wrath of God.
Norm & Ray i would say give up as these ones as they will never listen to anything you have to say about our Freedoms being striped away as we type, ALL in accord with Gods Great plans for eternity as promised in his word that has never been proved false.

kksalm
232
Points
kksalm 06/07/12 - 10:16 pm
0
0
Ya can't fix, well it's complicated....

I seriously doubt Carver read what Norm has expressed here in print so thoroughly. I see Carver as an attention seeker, lurking about baiting the groups, somehow fulfilling twisted needs.
Just like the rest of us humans I suppose.
Anyway, I don't think Carver did the math and digested what Norm is putting down for us.
It's not simple, but you can't just discard Norm's writings as frivolous, baseless and without merit concerns.
Have a wonderful day.

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