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There’s a reason for the 2nd Amendment

Posted: May 29, 2012 - 8:15am

Many of you keep weapons and have planned your response if a crack-high zombie goon, a murderous bear, or a thief threatens. Your threat to retaliate, having the means to do so provides safety, at least from those who are smart enough to know you will shoot. Even radio ads here in Alaska warn that homeowners are armed. The threat alone keeps the bad guys at bay.

But why are some people wrong to be just as afraid of agents from a government who they perceive are coming for them, their property or their children? "That's irrational fear," you say, but consider America in the 1770s when guns and the threat of using them stood alone against the tyrannical Crown government; and, when on April 19, 1775, a demonstration of that determination was witnessed for all the world to see and ponder. In different times and places in history, the gun symbolized the unspoken understanding that "if you aggress against me, you will die." For that very reason, the Gadsden Flag is emblazoned with a rattle snake rather than a lamb.

We can debate what a genuine threat might be, but does it matter? Shall we say there is no need to fear, regardless of the nature of the threat? Or, shall we just hope that someone else will stop the goons, bears, thieves, mad dogs, or even agents of a tyrannical government bent on destroying our life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness? Shall we try to negotiate with a marauding bear or a mad dog? I reckon not!

It appears that the central government would have us disarmed if they could, thinking it would promote its continuing consolidation of power. Barring that, the central government doesn't want us talking about defending ourselves against it. The Founding Fathers did more than talk. They declared that natural law requires free people bear arms to defend themselves and to organize themselves, logically to make the necessary plans to do so. If the Founders had no concern the federal government could grow tyrannical there would have been no reason to make the 2nd Amendment imperative. You may say that the central government cannot stop you from planning or thinking how to defend yourself against it, but they need not do that. All that is necessary is to convince you that their agents are no threat at all and that they are really there to help you.

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RaySouthwell
953
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RaySouthwell 06/13/12 - 09:00 am
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1
Raoulduke

Who defines who the terrorists are ?

Your government, who is above the law, or a jury using Rule of Law?

The real parasites are the big corporations who pay no federal income tax and have received rebates from the IRS. Don’t forget the bailouts.

Please list my “thin conspiracy theories” so I can see them clearly. I can present facts not theories.

My trial was not about me. It was my opportunity to share with the community about the abuses that occurred while working at CPH.

But who cares about others?

RaySouthwell
953
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RaySouthwell 06/13/12 - 09:03 am
0
1
Carver

You stated, your religious belief

“Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.”

So I ask you-Who has rebelled against the authority-Rule of law?

When our government ignores the Rule of Law, they are the “rebels against the authority rebelling against what God has instituted”, our Constitution.

Carver
1118
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Carver 06/13/12 - 09:53 am
2
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Wannabe mind-readers . . .

"Carver, Why is it, men do not want to admit their fear. . ."
*************

Ummmmm . . maybe because they're not afraid? Duh . . !

Why is it you militia-types think you can read the minds of the rest of us? Just because you're afraid doesn't mean we are. Sorry to disappoint . . ;-(

The Rule of Law? Don't make me laugh . . you guys are under no rule of law except your own paranoid, delusional version of what you think the law should be.

You want to know why I keep posting? Not for your sake . . I am convinced you guys have way too much invested to ever see the light at this late stage in the game. I post only for the possible benefit of other readers and to keep you talking and exposing yourselves.

Raoulduke
3055
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Raoulduke 06/13/12 - 10:01 am
1
0
completing

Now! The back pedaling has come full circle with no progress,or answer.The question of who defines who the terrorist are ?You really need an answer.That question is like asking .Who says who a murderer is?That was quite lame if trying to make a point.OH! If you are not a tax evader.Why are you going to tax court? You see.Reality for one is not reality for another,and having someone else pay the tax bill for you.Yes!It does make a leech out of you.That is reality.

RaySouthwell
953
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RaySouthwell 06/13/12 - 10:32 am
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1
Carver

Please share with all my “paranoid, delusional version of what you think the law should be.”

You may want to go to this article in the Alaska Dispatch to see what others think about the distortion of the militias in this commentary written by reporter David Halcro.

http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/militia-movement-enters-mainstream-politics-posing-domestic-threat#comment-90396

Take note of the constant “experts” (same ones you have used.) who give info on the militia. Same as it was in the 90’s.
You better jump in and show the ignorance of those supporting the militia growth in that blog/thread.

At least one even supports Norm Olson.

RaySouthwell
953
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RaySouthwell 06/13/12 - 10:39 am
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1
Raoulduke

Back peddling?

I think a murderer is still decided by Rule of Law-Jury trial.

Still asking who defines a terrorist-government who is above the law or Rule of Law-jury trial.

Carver
1118
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Carver 06/13/12 - 10:56 am
1
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Militias: A domestic threat . . . ?

Carver, . . go to this article in the Alaska Dispatch: http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/militia-movement-enters-mainstream-politics-posing-domestic-threat
****************
"Militia movement enters mainstream politics, posing domestic threat
Andrew Halcro, Jun 12, 2012

"Analysis: The trial of the Fairbanks militia members accused of plotting to kill judges and law enforcements officials is just the tip of the iceberg for American militias that have been rapidly gaining followers. These groups, whose numbers have exploded since 2009, have been fueled by hate, paranoia and racism.

"Over the last 20 years, America has seen the rise, fall and now the rise again of groups who have preached paranoia and conspiracy theories about a perceived loss of liberty. . .

". . the growing threat of American based militia groups is real and poses a serious threat to society through potential acts of domestic terrorism. Last year in Georgia, four militia members were arrested after plotting to attack four U.S. cities with ricin. They also had plans to blow up and assassinate several federal targets.

"The threat of anti-government groups is real. The threat of domestic terrorism is real."

—from the article cited by Southwell

Raoulduke
3055
Points
Raoulduke 06/13/12 - 10:58 am
1
0
SURE

If you are not a tax evader.Why do have a court date in tax court?Is it my misunderstanding.You have not paid taxes in many a year.Is this reality,or is it a dream?
Oh! Yes! The government defines a Terrorist.The government I live under is not above the law.If you believe such dribble.Take your none tax paying posterior perpendicular to a country like say Liberia, Sierra Leone,or better yet Somalia.Where you would be doing the most good to straighten out governments above the law.There would be plenty of woods to play combat. You may even be embraced by true combat militia.Oh! Please do not forget to take your commander.

Carver
1118
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Carver 06/13/12 - 12:34 pm
1
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Warts on a toad's hind-end . . .

"Hate groups, citizen militias surge in U.S. as race and economy fuel tensions —By Colleen Jenkins

"WINSTON-SALEM, North Carolina — The number of hate and anti-government groups in the United States continued to rise last year, fueled by racial tensions, conspiracy theories and anger over economic inequality, according to a report by the Southern Poverty Law Center.

"The most explosive growth came from the so-called Patriot movement, whose adherents view the federal government as their enemy. . .

"The number of Patriot groups, a largely rural phenomenon sometimes referred to as the militia movement, increased to 1,274 groups in 2011 from 824 in 2010, the report released on Thursday said.

"The number of Patriot groups, a largely rural phenomenon sometimes referred to as the militia movement, increased to 1,274 groups in 2011 from 824 in 2010, the report released on Thursday said.

"Potok said it was hard to gauge how many Americans are members of hate groups, but estimated the number was between 200,000 and 300,000 people.

"The center also estimated that some 300,000 Americans were part of the so-called “sovereign citizens” movement who flout most laws, do not pay federal taxes and even refuse to obtain driver’s licenses.

"The report’s findings echoed comments last month in Washington by the FBI about a growing threat of violence by members of these “sovereign citizen” groups.

"Stuart McArthur, deputy assistant director in the FBI’s counterterrorism division, told a news conference that routine encounters with police can turn violent “at the drop of a hat.” He cited shootings of police officers after routine traffic stops in Arkansas and Texas the past two years.

"Convictions of such extremists, mostly for white-collar crimes such as fraud, increased to 18 each in 2010 and 2011 from 10 in 2009, the FBI said."
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/03/09/hate-groups-citizen-militias-surge-in-u-s-as-race-and-economy-fuel-tensions/
*************

Though said to be growing, the actual number of genuine militia members in the US doesn't amount to a wart on a toad's butt . . less than one-percent of one-percent of the general population. It is very possible to be a member of, say, the NRA or the Tea Party without being a militia member, something the militia members themselves don't understand. They are quite enamored of themselves, and like to think they're important when in reality, if they'd keep their mouths shut, no one would know they were around. Militia-types should take a lesson from local bird-watcher clubs . . just keep quiet.

Raoulduke
3055
Points
Raoulduke 06/13/12 - 01:12 pm
1
0
The Gall

How dare you Ray try to speak for me,or think you know what I think,or feel?Just who do you think you are?You come across as some sanctimonious,all knowing.If I could walk to your front door.You would see,and feel me. Gun purchases have risen.Not from fear of my government.They have risen because it is lawful to do so without limit.No more.No less.The only restriction is Felons are not allowed to own ,or be in close proximity of firearms.Something I am in total agreement.Machine gun owners need a federal permit.
As for me accepting things as they are.Just so long as I get my fair share.I have been working,and paying taxes.Since I was 16 year old.When I was old enough .I volunteered to serve my country.Then at 18 I had the opportunity to fight for my country.I have paid my dues.Through the sacrifice,and trauma I incurred during my service.Which to this day I am proud as hell to have done.I have been sidelined for over 40 years.So! The statement of Me accepting things as long as I get my fair share is most unwarranted.But I still would like to know.If you are no tax evader.Why the tax court date? Oh! Yeah!Quit trying to make yourself the martyr because you have lost your employment.It reminds me of the spoiled child.

Carver
1118
Points
Carver 06/13/12 - 02:08 pm
1
0
The Bandar-Log . . . ?

"How dare you, Ray, try to speak for me or think you know what I think . . who do you think you are? You come across as some sanctimonious,all knowing . . ."
****************

Oh, not just you . . they do it to the rest of us as well. We're all scared like they are . . and how do we know? Because they say so. They alone know the score, they alone understand economics, politics, law, jurisprudence and more. They are the Illuminati, the Cognoscenti, and we are the dupes, the dummies, the slaves, yadda, yadda, yadda. Reminds me of the slogan of the Bandar-Log:*

"We are great. We are free. We are wonderful. We are the most wonderful people in all the jungle! We all say so, and so it must be true."

*The monkey-tribe from Kipling's Jungle Book

normolson
393
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normolson 06/13/12 - 04:29 pm
0
1
Wow! The Word Is Out. Climb On Board

Carver, Thanks for that piece from Colleen Jenkins. I hope you thought it was accurate because my friends at the SPLC have numbered the militia groups at 1,274, up from 824 in 2010. That's an amazing 54.6% increase IN ONE YEAR.
At the present rate of growth, we could be looking at 2000 groups by next year!

You, along with my other constant critics and naysayers post the very articles that support what I say. Thanks for posting the Crossfire piece. It's reassuring to know that my message hasn't changed over the years. So much for "exposing" myself to the public.

And as far as posting on this little bitty blog, I don't need to take my message across America...it appears that the word is out and the message has been received loudly and clearly.

And as far as thinking that your banal denoucements and name calling in any way afflicts me in any way, all I can say is you folks are way out of your league. My pointless critics today merely give me something to do instead of watching the tube. When it comes to denoucement, you should listen to what Prez Clinton and Charlie Schumer said about me. . .
My old buddy, Senator Specter tried, but I cut him off at the pass with a reminder about his own conspiracy theory ("The Amazing Single Bullet"). He didn't want any more..

And as far as doing something lasting when I leave this old tired planet, I thank God constantly that I can stand alongside the Founders in warning, alerting and alarming America.

My, my... 1,264 militia groups up and running... And to think that the Detroit Free Press said "you guys don't mean spit in the ocean."

We'll see. Yup, just give it time. . .we'll see.

Oh, and by the way, how about that 64% of Americans who are fearful of their own government. Do you suppose there is a connection there.

How does this work for ya?

normolson
393
Points
normolson 06/13/12 - 04:48 pm
0
1
Thanks For The Opportunity To Clarify

Carver added: "Though said to be growing, the actual number of genuine militia members in the US doesn't amount to a wart on a toad's butt . . less than one-percent of one-percent of the general population. It is very possible to be a member of, say, the NRA or the Tea Party without being a militia member, something the militia members themselves don't understand. They are quite enamored of themselves, and like to think they're important when in reality, if they'd keep their mouths shut, no one would know they were around. Militia-types should take a lesson from local bird-watcher clubs . . just keep quiet."

Tsk, tsk.. comeon' You know we can't be quiet...

If you've done your homework, you'll see my teachings about the grand category of Americans called "Constitutionalists". Within this large group are three subgroups: The Religious Right, The Patriot Community at Large, and the Minutemen.

People will move between the subgroups occasionally during different periods of political tension. During Clinton/Reno, many of the Religious Right and Patriot Community folks became members of the Minutemen (militia). It's happening again.

I've detailed this interesting dynamic many times in my writings and I'm disappointed that you fail to understand that there is no constant number of minutemen. Let's say that there is only 1% of Americans who are Minutemen. Does that mean that it will always be that way? Hardly... You haven't seen real DRAMATIC growth in the militia in this century. You should have seen what happened in 1994-95!

I'm sure you'll find a way of poo-pooing the number of militia in comparison with whatever forces are arrayed against us, thinking that the might or strength of any army is associated with numbers... Ask Raoulduke about numbers in Vietnam, he'll testify that it isn't the size of the dog in the fight, but rather it's the size of the fight in the dog.

So, sleep tight tonight, my friends... you're friendly federal government is there to warm, comfort and protect you as they tuck you in.

Imagine, 64% of Americans polled are frightened by the central government. Why do you suppose that is?

normolson
393
Points
normolson 06/13/12 - 04:54 pm
0
1
Correction: Should be "let's say that there is only .1%"

There's more deer hunters with rifles in Wisconsin than there are military with rifles in the US armed forces.

Angry Americans with Guns... Not much has changed in 230 years.

normolson
393
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normolson 06/13/12 - 05:07 pm
0
1
2nd Samuel 23:2-3

Carver, Would you like to explain Romans 13 in light of 2nd Samuel 23:2-3

Why did first century Christians WITH WHOM Paul walked disobey the Roman Government by refusing to stop proselytizing and meeting. Indeed, why did early Christians become the enemy of the State at all?

Why didn't Peter stop preaching when commanded by the Government?

Please comment on what Paul told young Timothy in 1st Timothy 2:2. What do you suppose was the context of these prayers "for those in authority?"

I just wonder because you admire Paul as your hero.

normolson
393
Points
normolson 06/13/12 - 05:24 pm
0
1
To All:

Check out the Alaska Dispatch's articles about the growing militia and the S. Cox trial
Here's a snippet from the blog to which I'd say, "This sez it all."

Richard Pelto | June 13, 2012 - 2:08pm
It is easy to get really [filtered word] off at cops, federal agents, local officials, State Officials (not saying all are sick in one way or an other but enough are to be very concerened), Parasitic Corporations that feed on the working class and less fortunate. What is happening here, as for the federal and States accusations as I see it are convicting on a belief and a persons thought. This no less atrocious as the Holy Crusades. The leaders of this Country and the public service, this is an eye opener that your doing things wrong so wrong and still you defend the corruption. I see it as the public officials can not police themselves and fully understand that maybe a strong militia is needed to put the same fear in Government that the Government has instilled in the American People to keep themselves safe in their corruption."

This person seems to fully understand where the fear comes from. Imagine, 64% of Americans polled are frightened of the federal government.

Carver
1118
Points
Carver 06/13/12 - 05:29 pm
1
0
Keeping it in perspective . . .

There are, according to some generous estimates, maybe a thousand or so militia groups in the US with somewhere between 50,000 and 200,000 members. By way of comparison, there are over 20,000,000 bird watchers in the US.

The militia movement, in terms of numbers, is bush-league.

Trouble is, when they turn violent, they're meaner and more deadly than bird-watchers.

Keep a sharp eye out for them . . .

normolson
393
Points
normolson 06/13/12 - 05:57 pm
0
1
Comeon' ". . .earnestly contend for the faith. . ."

Carver,

Please comment on Romans 13 (which you quoted) in light of 2nd Samuel 23:2-3.

Wanna go there?

Carver
1118
Points
Carver 06/13/12 - 07:52 pm
1
0
As Johnny said to Doc, "Let's do it, . . ."

Carver,
Please comment on Romans 13 (which you quoted) in light of 2nd Samuel 23:2-3. Wanna go there?
************

I'm your huckleberry . . you know where to find me.*

* http://www.onthenatureofthings.net/forum/index.php

normolson
393
Points
normolson 06/13/12 - 06:00 pm
0
1
Sources????

"There are, according to some generous estimates, maybe a thousand or so militia groups in the US with somewhere between 50,000 and 200,000 members. By way of comparison, there are over 20,000,000 bird watchers in the US."

Please cite your sources.

Oh? Well, why should you waste your time citing sources...

Just like that non-person who calls himself leewaytoo who constantly says that I said something about Tim McVeigh getting caught. You pat him on the back, but you never ask him to cite the source of my statement.

normolson
393
Points
normolson 06/13/12 - 08:33 pm
0
1
Comeon' You don't need a peanut gallery

I looked at your international forum of blogsters who wish to add their 2-cents worth into every point of view. Boorrring!

You seem to be a Christian and yet cannot stand on what you believe? Gimme a break... He that cannot contend earnestly for the faith by him/herself reveals something truly lacking.

You don't need cheerleaders or a gallery of people to speak for you... I'm waiting for a MAN or WOMAN who will stand up for what they believe.... no phony names, no dallying, no excuses... Just a MAN or WOMAN who have the stuff necessary to stand and deliver.

You cannot imagine how low you've sunk in respect and esteme... No name, no standing, no courage, no willingness to stand in defense of THE faith...

I'm sorry, but I've got to conclude that you are an entity without standing, without a name, without an ouce of respect, without the courage to face me in debate, without the grit to stand EVEN behind your own position...

Comeon' Isn't there anyone out there who has the courage to face me in honest debate?

I wait for a champion, but I see none...

How disappointing

normolson
393
Points
normolson 06/13/12 - 08:43 pm
0
1
How about this:?

I've never tried this before, but how about a debate where the first one to use a pronoun or proper noun is the loser?

As the question, debate the issue... Come forward as a real debater, but without the use of pronouns or ad hominem...

Something that might be a real challenge. Up for it?????

Carver
1118
Points
Carver 06/14/12 - 05:49 am
1
0
Y'all come . . .

"I wait for a champion, but I see none..."
****************

Look right here: http://www.onthenatureofthings.net/forum/index.php

Carver
1118
Points
Carver 06/14/12 - 05:31 am
1
0
An excellent resource . . .

Anyone interested in an in-depth analysis of radical right-wing groups can visit the Web site of the Southern Poverty Law Center: http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2012/spring/the-year-in-hate-and-extremism

—from SPLC, much more at their Web site:
***************
"The number of hate groups counted by the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) last year reached a total of 1,018, up slightly from the year before but continuing a trend of significant growth that is now more than a decade old. The truly stunning growth came in the antigovernment “Patriot” movement — conspiracy-minded groups that see the federal government as their primary enemy.

"At the most macro level, the growth of right-wing radicalization — a phenomenon that is plainly evident in Europe as well as the United States — is related directly to political and, especially, economic globalization. As the nation-state has diminished in importance since the end of the Cold War, Western economies have opened up, not only to capital from abroad but also to labor. In concrete terms, that has meant major immigration flows, many of which have drastically altered the demographics of formerly fairly homogenous populations. In Europe and the U.S. both, white-dominated countries have become less so. At the same time, globalization has caused major economic dislocations in the West as certain industries and kinds of production move to less developed countries.

"Sovereign citizens, whose ideology first developed in white supremacist groups, generally do not believe they are obliged to pay federal taxes, follow most laws, or comply with requirements for driver’s licenses and vehicle registrations. They also typically believe that filing certain documents can relieve them of debt or bankruptcy proceedings, or even bring them millions of dollars from secret government accounts. The claims are bogus, of course, but they have attracted thousands into the movement at a time of real financial hardship."

Carver
1118
Points
Carver 06/14/12 - 05:44 am
1
0
Liberty Fund: Another resource . . .

http://lfautumnwinter2012.easyviewer.net/

Browse their catalog and Web site:

"Liberty Fund is an educational foundation, reflecting [its founder's] belief in the centrality of education. He understood learning as an ongoing process of discovery, not limited to traditional institutional settings or to specific ages. Education, in his view, is a lifelong responsibility of each individual. Education in a free society also requires a dialogue centered in the great ideas of civilization, for critical readings of the great ideas of the past can help illuminate what liberty means today.

"Stimulating conversations about liberty has been the mission of Liberty Fund for the past fifty years. Today, the Foundation continues Pierre Goodrich’s vision by hosting conferences that facilitate the full and open exchange of ideas in a roundtable format, by publishing classic books on themes relating to human liberty, and by maintaining the Online Library of Liberty website—a collection of electronic volumes by authors from ancient Sumeria to the present day."

Norseman
3349
Points
Norseman 06/14/12 - 07:07 am
1
0
I think norm, ray, and the

I think norm, ray, and the rest of the sheeple that drink the kool aid, should seriously look into buying an island in the Aleutians. There they could set up their own little government where they could be the leaders and everything would be just as they want it.
Free from the evil tyranny of this government. Able to create and enforce their own set of laws. Kinda like Cox holding his court in a Denny's restaurant.
I would be willing to pitch in to help with the relocation expenses. I am sure other Alaskans would too.

Carver
1118
Points
Carver 06/14/12 - 07:25 am
1
0
From the Alaska Citizens Militia Handbook:

—from the Web site of the Alaska Citizens Militia:

"Like it or not, the only reason a civilian, or 'unorganized,' militia exists is to keep government in check . . . .

"The precedent for the Alaska Citizens Militia has been set by others . . it is to us, the inheritors of the task begun more than two centuries ago, to seek and to secure these same ideals in the face of . . threats . . To wit, that the organized government, having removed itself from the citizens . . had intended to dissolve the rights and liberties of free people. The events in Waco, Texas, in 1993 and the on-going attack on our God-given rights by a rapidly growing central government are clear evidence of the clear and present danger.

"The following are considered Acts of War:
1. Firearms restrictions or other disarmament
2. Declaration of Martial Law
3. Mandatory medical anything
4. Involuntary involvement in anything
5. Circumvention of juries
6. Confiscation of any property
7. Elimination of gold, cash or barter
8. Checkpoints, roadblocks, search, seizure without just cause
9. Federal patrols
10. Blockades or restriction of essential goods
11. Political arrests
12. Suspension of Constitutionally convened Courts
13. Chips or marks to track, control, or monitor
14. Taking control of children under duress or threat
15. Federalization of law enforcement
16. Restriction of freedom of religion or freedom of speech
17. Surrender powers to a corporation or foreign government"

http://www.alaska.net/~cadrecc/

RaySouthwell
953
Points
RaySouthwell 06/14/12 - 08:04 am
0
1
Raoulduke

You stated-

“Oh! Yes! The government defines a Terrorist. The government I live under is not above the law.”

Our Rule of Law is under the Constitution. You accept a benevolent leader like President Bush or Obama decide who is a terrorist and ignore the Constitution. You accept their behavior, above our Rule of Law.

I am pleased you support the stockpiling of weapons.

When did GE start paying Federal Income tax? Oh, that’s right they do not have to pay any. Like the President they are above the Law.

My trial is in Anchorage on the 18th. It is open Court. Come up and sit in. My wife and I can pick you up, if you need a ride.

RaySouthwell
953
Points
RaySouthwell 06/14/12 - 08:11 am
0
1
Carver

I wonder why Indiana felt a need to pass a law that allows people to use force if they “reasonably believe” a law-enforcement officer is acting illegally and that it’s needed to prevent “serious bodily injury,”

Probably more “delusional paranoid” behavior from the people (militia)

see it here-
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-06-05/nra-backed-law-spells-out-when-indianans-may-open-fire-on-police.html

I wonder why Virginia felt a need to pass a law rejecting any local police support of the NDAA.

Probably more “delusional paranoid” behavior from the people (militia)

see it here-
http://blog.tenthamendmentcenter.com/2012/04/ndaa-nullification-passes-in-virginia-governors-signature-expected-shortly/

Perhaps it is all a "Vast Right Wing Conspiracy” as Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton has believed.

Carver
1118
Points
Carver 06/14/12 - 08:36 am
1
0
? ? ? . . .

I wonder why . . I wonder why . . Perhaps . .
**************

And your point is? Shooting police?

Bizarre! Absolutely sick . . .

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