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Jury, courts important to civilized society

Posted: September 7, 2012 - 7:56am

Justice is blind. It’s always interesting to be called to the courthouse for jury duty. You are ordered by your government to do your duty to your fellow citizens. You may be one of the folks selected to sit in judgment of a complete stranger. I’ve been asked a couple of questions that I find hard to answer in one word, yes or no. 

For example, “Is it better to let guilty men go free, than to cause harm to one innocent man?” Well, how many guilty men do you want to set free? Is it one, ten, a hundred, a thousand? Yet however they do the math, what do the victims think about it? Do they think it’s better? If not then who is it better for? Is it better for everyone else in town that has to put up with a bunch of rapists, robbers, murders and thieves running free? There is an old saying that, “Justice delayed is justice denied.” 

Or how about this question: “Do you think the testimony of a police officer carries more weight than that of citizen?” Well, the court thinks so, and it’s obvious the second you walk through the door. Uniformed officers confiscate your property for search, and run you through a metal detector. There are full time Alaska State Troopers working in the court house to protect the court employees from harm. Do you think the Troopers are patted down and searched every morning when they arrive? No, but the witnesses sure are. That’s pretty darned good sign as to who the judge gives “weight” to. 

Justice is blind. That is why the prosecutor who works for law and order, supposedly in the interest of the public, cannot tell you all of the truth in a trial. He cannot tell you about any prior history of an accused person. He cannot say that their criminal history is as long as an Alaskan winter. He cannot tell you that this is the first, second or tenth time this person has been unlawful. Yet, would you drive your car this way, blindfolded? Not able to look behind you, or on your sides, or at the gages on your dashboard. Not able to remember that when you drive unsafely you and your car are in danger. 

A very weighty responsibility it is to be on a jury. You are asked to make blind decisions based on what little information is selectively and perhaps theatrically presented to you. Yet many juries still do fine job of serving justice. 

Your government has a few simple duties. It shall punish those who harm your physical person, and your private property. It must moderate civil disputes, and protect you from foreign invasion. It should leave men free to live their lives, on their own land, in the manner they see fit; as long as they don’t harm others. Punishing to the full extent of the law, those that do harm to others, is absolutely mandatory to maintain our freedom to live in a civil society. 

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jlmh
352
Points
jlmh 09/07/12 - 10:22 am
0
3
Why would they pat down a

Why does it matter that they pat down civilians and not police officers? They're checking for weapons. It's a given that the police officer will have one.

spwright
1376
Points
spwright 09/08/12 - 06:54 am
4
0
Jury Duty

Sat. 9/8/12
I have served on Petit Jury Duty 4 times, Grand Jury Duty
2 times, Federal Jury Duty 0 times.

Here is the Tried & True Method to be Dismissed from Jury Duty.

When It's your turn for the 10 Questions during Jury Selection.
Instead of giving direct Yes or No Answers or very brief & direct answers.

Ask all sorts of Dumb & Lenghty Questions, carry on for several minutes about your personal history, carry on about the Constitution & The Judges.

Watch your fellow Jury Members roll their eyes back in their heads & the Lawyers lose patience with you.

You will be dismissed from Jury Duty & your services will not be needed.

Whats Up with This ? I have several Neighbors that have Lived here since Dirt & NOT once have they been summoned
for Jury Duty ?

SPW in Sloooooowdotna

freedomlibertytruth
1398
Points
freedomlibertytruth 09/08/12 - 03:25 pm
3
1
who do you believe?

spwright- you are absolutely right. "what's up with this"?

jlmh- It matters that they pat down 'witnesses' for weapons and not cops BECAUSE It means the court trusts (believes) the cops are persons of (normally) better character. therefore their testimony should be believed over conflicting testimony of any witness.

But if you say that in court , (ie.) that you weight the testimony of the investigating officer over the accused, the defense attorney has you thrown off the jury 'for cause.' The cause being a prejudice toward your own representational government police officers who carry guns to protect you.

when you say "It's a given that the police officer will have" a gun. you are saying that, YOU also favor the integrity of a cop over the public. so why wouldn't you believe their testimony in court?. (in normal situations). catch 22?

Watchman on the Wall
2893
Points
Watchman on the Wall 09/08/12 - 05:36 pm
3
3
Looks like Revelation 13; to me

Can ya say one world order and total control of every one & every thing to the MAX??
Ya wanted hope & change to believe in from the OBAMANATION OF DESOLATION, well there it is and it's gonna get far worse. Funny how the daily news is catching up with Bible prophecy at every turn, as in Revelation 13; for one.

Just saying...
34
Points
Just saying... 09/09/12 - 01:28 am
1
4
Blind Decisions

I can say from experience, “blind decisions” are made every day, whether in law enforcement or not. You would hope that we all hold ourselves to a high standard, especially people in law enforcement. Investigate and present an unbiased truth that should be the standard.

The question, “Do you think the testimony of a police officer carries more weight than that of citizen?” Unfortunately, yes it does. It is unfortunate because I have had the unfortunate experience in observing officers, deputies, directors, and others conduct themselves in a very biased manner. And these are the people we are taught to trust, right!

We are forced to make “blind decisions” every day because it is easier to lie than to tell the truth. It is easier to sweep it under the rug, rather than deal with it. It is always easier to be the victim than pursue what’s right.

A very weighty responsibility it is to be on a jury. You are asked to make blind decisions based on what little information is selectively and perhaps theatrically presented to you, is correct and unjust. Law enforcement, justice, and civilians all limit the information given, and hope that no questions are asked, from anyone, anytime, anywhere.

If this is justice, if this is how our law enforcement personnel conducts themselves, and if this is how we are to judge our fellow man on the wrongs they have done, count me out…

Just saying…

BigRedDog
670
Points
BigRedDog 09/09/12 - 05:25 am
0
4
Touchy subject

Years ago I got to watch the knee jerk of one of Kenai's finest as we sat down for Steak night at the Elks Lodge. Talk was centered around some local politician and the wavering of the facts was rampant. Then I said very outloud " He lied like a Cop under oath", that officer almost jumped to his feet and a big whoot went around the hall! That was alittle to close for comfort, it's all a matter of perception. The cop only sees the matter from a totally different perspective than ordinary folks and his perception of what he sees might be totally contrary to what you said did or what somebody esle observed.
It's the same thing being on a jury, and why you would want to get of jury duty is a real question. why would you not want to get on that jury? Why has policy changed and politics changed to where a Judge can say to a jury you have no right to judge the law itself. All the BS comes down to one juror who can stand up and say I think this is a BS law and I would not want to see myself or anyone else facing this and nulify that funky law!! That was the 5th check and balance within the US constitution. that stops the legislature from passing stupid laws that over police the population. I don't know if I could convict someone railroaded through the system on some of the statutes in place today. so I guess I better keep quiet about those feeling next month when I answer that call to jury duty!! W/O jury nulifucation we would still have liquor criminalized under prohibition. I guess it's not a mind altering drug or anything like that ehe? Booze was legalized dispite huge public objections and outcries simply because the continued prosecution carried to high a social cost. And a juror said Not Guilty and struck down prohibition bye jury nulification. Don't tell me that didn't happen, don't tell me the process is changed and that is no longer true. Don't tell the soldiers heading into combat that they are no longer defending that right! How was it taken from us that we like cattle cannot decide for ourselves if thats the feed ben we want to eat out of or not!! You are ushered into a room and a few attorneys ask if you mind that you cannot directly chalenge the content of the law as a juror. If it ruffles your feathers your outta here! We only want stupid compliant drones as jurors or this horde of folks can't be refereed if they have anything to say about the content of the law!! Well jury nulification has brought this great nation this far and if we want to get any further down this road of democracy we better KEEP it!

freedomlibertytruth
1398
Points
freedomlibertytruth 09/09/12 - 01:42 pm
3
2
no chance of it getting better, too many folks can't even read.

Have you observed officers in bad conduct on the job? We are all permitted our free personal lives and our own personal opinions, off the job (especially when drinking). Yet most of us have the discipline, work ethic, and self serving intelligence that guide us to observe and carry out the objectives and missions of our employers, when we are paid to do so.

Why are we given an ‘easier’ path to being victims? What does that mean?
Who gives this easier path to us? What is the method used to make it easier? And do you knowingly take it?

Perhaps a corrupt government that prohibits us from taking the path of ‘pursuing what’s right”? Perhaps the outspoken aggressiveness of crowds makes it easier to not ‘pursue what’s right? Explain why it is easier to be the victim. Why do you willingly accept it? You write too well, with too much thought, for me to accept that you would want that to be your choice.

“Count me out”… What are you counting yourself out of? Not sure from the comment. You don’t want to judge your neighbors, perhaps. Is it better to be a victim of their atrocity. Let your house be burned down, let your family be robbed of all of their property, would you seriously not ask for some meager semblance of fairness in being protected from harm from others. We will return to the days of vigilantism, and for good reason, when our government abandons our safety.

Who changed the laws and the politics that stops you from saying that the people must not speak up about their own laws. Our founding fathers wrote strongly in their belief that it is your duty and responsibility to do so.

So how did this stop being good citizenship? How did participation, debate, open discussion of facts, thoughtfulness of consequences, searching for precedence in history, and public speaking become outlawed by short meaningless chants, 5 sound bites, and Political Correctness? So who is out there doing this? Elected politicians, Congressmen, Senators, Lawyers, Judges, and why can’t someone like you find a method to make this cease and desist?

Why can’t you stop the BS laws? There must be a way to do it. There are millions of petty destructive laws on the books, who put them there. Most of them are complete and total bullcrap. They are meant not to make men safer, or freer, but to make them easier to control and to punish.

A big corrupt out-of-control government can be as dangerous as a big group of vicious thugs on the loose. As you say, it has come to the point that “stupid compliant drones” (sometimes called Sheeple or Lemings) rule our meager chance at justice and we have to “KEEP it”. You understand that it is the only primitive fraudulent thing left to an American desiring fairness. Pretty sad isn’t it? Thoroughly disgusting and admittedly self-destructive of us to understand and accept that you are perfectly right.

Those of you who have heard of the US Constitution, The Bill of Rights, The Amendments, The Declaration of Independence, The American Revolution……you are a dying breed that will be the last American supporters of sovereignty. The Educators don’t even allow it to be taught in schools or colleges. Universities of Higher Learning have become chambers of lower obedient zombies. It’s much easier to create the “stupid compliant drones” when they are very young and pliable. Don't teach them to reason, solve problems, to see and understand both sides of an issue before making an intelligent decision. The useful idiots in the mindless masses must be created in childhood.

Yes here we are, banking on Alaska to hold up when the rest of the states collapse.

freedomlibertytruth
1398
Points
freedomlibertytruth 09/09/12 - 02:12 pm
3
0
Jury duty, why me? How does

Jury duty, why me?
How does the state pick the people to subpoena for jury duty?
Driver’s license, voting rolls, PFD’s?

spwright
1376
Points
spwright 09/09/12 - 03:10 pm
4
0
P F D List

Sun . 9/9/12
The Court Clerk will explain during the Jury Selection Instructions. Alaskans are selected for Jury Duty from the
Permanent Fund Dividend Listing.

That 1st day is really looong & boring. Bring a Good Book with You & lots of patience. 8:00am til 1:00 or 2:00pm IF everything goes as planned ? That's in the waiting area.

Jury Selection begins AFTER You enter the actual Court Room w/ a Judge, Clerks, Lawyers & Defendant

SPW

freedomlibertytruth
1398
Points
freedomlibertytruth 09/09/12 - 04:18 pm
3
0
Jury duty, why me? How does

then how do your neighbors escape the subpoena?

cbeard
132
Points
cbeard 09/09/12 - 09:19 pm
0
3
Not impressed.

The state doesn't pay enough to people who miss work due to jury duty, and who have to travel an hour's drive (without traffic) just because their town is on the edge of that court's jurisdiction border. After I called back about receiving my notice, I asked about the procedure for reimbursements, and they just sort of laughed at me. So I laughed at them, and said I'd risk the paltry PFD because it would cost me 3 or 4 times more money in wages and gas to actually show up for jury duty.

If they want citizens to be a part of the judicial process, they need to treat them like citizens and not force them to show up for one minor case at the risk of their paycheck and livelihood.

Just saying...
34
Points
Just saying... 09/10/12 - 02:23 am
4
0
Freedomlibertytruth, Here's

Freedomlibertytruth, Here's my return comment on:

“Count me out”… What are you counting yourself out of? Not sure from the comment. You don’t want to judge your neighbors, perhaps. Is it better to be a victim of their atrocity. Let your house be burned down, let your family be robbed of all of their property, would you seriously not ask for some meager semblance of fairness in being protected from harm from others. We will return to the days of vigilantism, and for good reason, when our government abandons our safety.

Let me make myself clear for you. For me, if I was given the responsibility to “judge” my peer, that means more to me than just finding someone guilty or innocent for a crime possibly committed, it means hearing all of the information, not just what the lawyers, police etc. want to present.

I personally find it hard to be given the responsibility to judge someone based off of incomplete, twisted, or embellished information. That does not mean I do not want to judge my neighbor, it does not mean it is easier to be the victim or any of the other idiotic things you mentioned. I never said that. What I said is that in order to “judge” my peer fairly, all of the information should be presented in its entirety.

If all the information is presented, then a well informed decision and not a “blind decision” can be made, at least for me. I cannot judge someone, right or wrong, with half of the information. It is my responsibility to make a decision based on facts and truth.

Just saying...

spwright
1376
Points
spwright 09/10/12 - 05:14 am
4
0
cbeard

Mon. 9/10/12
Residents of Juneau attempted your Apathy towards Jury Duty & Guess What ?

There was a Ak State Trooper knocking on their door with a Arrest Summons for failure to appear.
That little notice you get in the mail is a official Summons to Report to Jury Duty it's not a game.

IF You wish NOT to serve then You must write a Letter to the Judge explaining Why You should not serve.
Whining about your personal cost is NOT a valid reason to be dismissed from Jury Duty

But IF You had served on Jury Duty in the past ? You would know all of this already.
Why have I served so many times & You have not served once ? That's a Mystery to Me ?

SPW

Raoulduke
3084
Points
Raoulduke 09/10/12 - 07:12 am
1
2
Jury duty

Jury duty is an American's responsibility,and just like they call it a Duty.But for the life of me.I do not understand .How we get from jury duty to one world order.Obama hasn't anything to do with any Jury duty summons.So! stay on the subject.PLEASE!

freedomlibertytruth
1398
Points
freedomlibertytruth 09/10/12 - 11:43 am
3
1
These aren’t the jury duty droids you were looking for

‘Just Saying’ - You wrote, and I quote:
…”it is EASIER to lie than to tell the truth. It is EASIER to sweep it under the rug, rather than deal with it. It is always EASIER to be the victim than pursue what’s right.”…..

You were asked why.

You then wrote:
…”it does not mean it is easier to be the victim or any of the other idiotic things you mentioned. I never said that.”…

You’re equivocating. Calling respondent questions ‘idiotic’ is misdirection. And it doesn’t work.

Your explanation on your ‘Count me out’ comment was excellent. You are accurate in your assessment. Most people may understand your reasoning and agree with you completely. Hopefully readers of the Clarion will take the time to read and acknowledgewhat you wrote.

If you chose not to comment on How this became our system, or Who made it happen, or Why it is allowed to continue, well….so be it.

jlmh
352
Points
jlmh 09/10/12 - 05:42 pm
0
3
The treatment of civilians

The treatment of civilians and police officers regarding courtroom security and how much value their testimonies have in court are two separate issues. But if you want police officers to be pat down in search of weapons like the rest of us entering court, then fine. We can do patdowns to find weapons that are already in plain sight. Sounds useful.

Just saying...
34
Points
Just saying... 09/13/12 - 04:30 am
1
2
Blind Decisions

Okay Freedomlibertytruth, I am going to try this one more time, after this, you are on your own. The subject of my comment was "Blind Decisions". I said, and I quote, "We are forced to make “blind decisions” every day because it is easier to lie than to tell the truth. It is easier to sweep it under the rug, rather than deal with it. It is always easier to be the victim than pursue what’s right."

There are some who are asked to judge our peers by being called to serve as a juror. Some find it to be an unwieldy burdensome task, and take the responsibility of being a juror lightly. There are some who have no understanding of what our government is asking us to do, and who treat that very same responsibility in a careless presumptuousness fashion because they cannot be bothered. Some find it easier to slack off on their responsibility, and make blind decisions. They find it easier to sweep their responsibilities under the rug, easier to lie instead of tell the truth, so they can say they have fulfilled their responsibility as a juror.

Being given such a huge responsibility, for me, I want to hear all of the information, all the facts about my peer I am asked to judge before handing down a conclusion of my peer. I do not want to make an ill-informed decision based on half-truths; I do not want to sweep anything under the rug, nor lie. I want to judge my peer fairly and justly.

Lawyers, police officers, and even judges leave out a lot of information. Information I want to know about before making a decision that may or may not condemn my peer. It is, in my opinion, easier for the lawyers, police officers, and maybe even judges, to sweep the truth under the rug, to lie, and then place the blame on the outcome of the jury.

This is what our government asks us to do, this is our form of justice, and I am okay with that. What I am not okay with is being asked and given the responsibility to judge someone on half of the information and led to make a “blind decision” Got it?

Just saying…

spwright
1376
Points
spwright 09/14/12 - 07:18 am
3
0
Jury Selection

Fri. 9/14/14
I need to explain more about the Jury Duty Selection Process.

Alaskans are summoned for Jury Duty from the Permanent Fund Dividend List. On the summons will be a Group Number & that determines which group is summoned to appear at the
State Court House in Kenai. You are required to call a local court clerk Recording at 5:00pm each afternoon & keep yourself informed as to When to Report for Jury Duty.

Then 50 or 60 Local Residents assemble in a waiting room & are given a Jury Duty Handbook & a Court Clerk explains the process. Then a very Loooong & Boring Waiting period.

Then your group is instructed to report to a certain court room for the actual Jury Selection. You are informed as to If this is a Criminal Trial or a Civil Trial
Every ones Name is typed onto a small slip of paper then that slip of paper is placed into a Tumbler & that tumbler is rotated numerous times. Then the Court Clerk pulls out 16 names for Jury Duty Selection Process. 12 Jurors & 4 alternate Jurors

Then the 10 Questions & interview process. Both the Defence & State Lawyers ask Questions of each possible Juror.
Each Juror may be dismissed without any explaination as to Why they were dismissed. This also is a very Looong Process that takes several hours to complete
Rant & Rave about the Constitution, Bad Mouth the system & You will be dismissed immediately.
As stated before, Jury Duty requires Alot of PATIENCE.
All of this Happens before the actual Trial begins.

All of this Boring info was for Alaskans that have not served on Jury Duty & What to Expect.

& NO I do not know Why some Alaskans are summoned to serve NUMEROUS times while other Alaskans haven't served Once ? That's a Mystery to Me ? ?

Thanks for Listening SPW Sloooooowdotna

lkpomn912
931
Points
lkpomn912 09/17/12 - 11:50 am
3
0
new fangled justice, and eye for an eye

Now the courts practice CATCH and RELEASE for thugs, like they were just harmless fish.

An eye for an eye, as a measure of justice may be just what the barbarians of the past needed. A lot of really terrible atrocities were carried out as retribution for insults (like the you-know-whos-its are doing to our embassies overseas today.they are living by rules made in 650 a.d.)

In a world history where whole towns were destroyed by warring tribes. When all the women were raped and their kids taken as slaves was punishment. In times where the men got slaughtered, gutted, drawn and quarted, heads severed: for misdemeanors and felonies.
The newly founded concept of ONLY taking an eye for an eye was pretty shocking. Meaning that if someone punches your lights out you don’t get to chop his arms off.

An eye for an eye means you don't demolish the home and kill every member of the family for a crime committed by one human. But it also means you don't dismiss the charges time and time again, and disregard numerous criminal wrong-doings with no punishment whatsoever.

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