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Religion shouldn’t be part of political debate

Posted: September 24, 2012 - 8:54am

I am afraid we are growing away from the years of President Kennedy. The saying then was that no one would vote for a Catholic.

My personal experience during the Korean Conflict was that religion did not have any bearing on the ability of all people to work together and worship at their own places of gathering and no one ever had a complaint or problem. 

My ship with 1,200-1,600 personel on board held services for all. For almost 2 years, a young Mormon sailor bunked across the aisle from myself. He was a highly patriotic person, good worker and friend. We occasionly went on liberty together.

Their is a big battle going on now to keep America as a free country, but a world wide effort to change us to something that I abhor. Let’s keep fighting to keep our country.

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Watchman on the Wall
2893
Points
Watchman on the Wall 09/24/12 - 03:24 pm
2
3
Freedom to choose Religion is OK

Freedom to choose Religion is OK, but it is also OK to express doubts about the supposed religions in reguard to salvation.
I disagree and make no mistake every action we make should be faith based on right or wrong and thats how Obama got elected.
Obama promised Fundamental changes and a New Hope to Believe in if we would remember and that folks is intirily religious in it's promise to do away with OUR Old beliefs and replace them with his new ones which are Totally False hopes for anyone that would listen and follow him off the cliff, Romneys not much better either.

Since Adam decided to listen to his wife and not God in the beginning troubles with mans way or Gods way have erupted around earth. Cain, who killed his brother is the first murderer over to obey or not obey what God said was the acceptable means of worship and sacrifice unto God.
Abel obeyed God and Cain did not, so Cain got mad & killed his brother rather than simply obeying God.
This has now spread into thousands of differant religions and that all claim to be right. But how can they all be right when they differ in so many ways?
God has never changed the rules of acceptance for anyone from the beginning and has even given mankind his written rules to live by as well as govern society for every situation that could arise as far as doing wrong to others.
From the beginning God layed out his plans and from the beginning Lucifer has tried to stop or distort Gods plans by continually helping mankind question what God has said is right or wrong.
Religion has killed Billions of people since creation 6000 years ago, and will continue to do so until Lucifer has been stopped for ever in his battle against God.
Look at all the wars by nations that seek to impose their leaders desires on others by deception and control or by forced submission or death for not submiting.
The wars are always between good and evil with evil usually instigating them for the expres purpose of killing humans created in Gods image, which is why Lucifer/Satan hate mankind and desire to destroy everything God has created or chosen as his, with the Jews usually at the forefront of every conflict.
Have you ever thought about why the Jews are always the desired enemy of every nation? Have you ever considered why Jews and the knowledge of Yahweh, Gods promises to them are always at the forefront of every war or conflict?
Have you ever wondered why Believers in Yeshau, Jesus have also always been at the forefront of hate and death for the last 2000 years as well?
Ever since Jesus died and the Holy Spirit started the age of grace for all people on the Jewish Feast of Pentecost, Believers have been sought after & killed for trusting in Christ.
Jewish leaders killed Christians, Roman Catholics killed Christians & Muslims and Jews alike, and for the last 2000 years many differant religious groups have killed those that refuse to believe as they do under their False religious rituals and ways of salvation other than what God has said was acceptable.
We now see religions hate for the truth about the God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel/Jacob and all that would be a witness to Yahweh being hated and killed in many nations by peaceful Idol worshipers.
All one has to do is study history about each religion and one will discover that they all have their own ideas and ways to God and they also all have the same hope on judgement day. Their hope is in what they have done to make themselves acceptable unto salvation to some god. They all have been calling the wrong number when trying to reach God by their own merrits as God has said what is acceptable unto him which differs from what their doing.
I have many differant aquatances with many differant religious beliefs and my idea has always been to try and get them to really study what God said compared to what their founders have said which always differs from Gods way.
It's everyone right to believe how they want and we all shall stand before the True God someday and give an account for what we did in relation to his acceptable means of rightiousness and salvation found in Yeshau, Jesus Christ alone.

Religious beliefs do matter and this election we have two candidates that believe in exactly the same things which offer no hope of acceptance or salvation to any one of those that believe as they do. We must chose between one False religion and another with Obama, a muslimchristian or Romney a mormonchristian, both of which there is no such thing.
I will have to vote for Romney as his morals align with mine, even though his Doctrine and Theology are manmade means for a hopeless salvation just as Islams are as well.
Romney is the lesser of two evils in my book, but my hope is not on Obama or Romney, but on Christ Jesus alone and his eternal plans of one day judging all evil and establishing his Kingdom of rightiousness to govern mankind.
As a believer in Jesus i try to help people see the light of truth and if they don't agree or accept my instructions then thats onw them, i don't want to harm or kill any of them in any way, if only i could say that about them in reguard to my beliefs. I'm not perfect, just forgiven and filled with eternal hope in Jesus Christ alone, not in myself or anything i do outside of serving Him.
THANKS FOR THE LETTER AND OPINION. ABOUT THE BATTLE ALL OF MANKIND IS INVOLVED IN DAILY BETWEEN GOOD AND EVIL, BUT IT DOES MATTER HOW YOU VOTE OR BELIEVE.

Yahweh and Yeshua are Greater by the way!

cbeard
132
Points
cbeard 09/25/12 - 09:40 am
3
1
Zzz.

Religion has no place in politics, and long-winded tirades don't exactly help that idea.

Keep your god at home.

Watchman on the Wall
2893
Points
Watchman on the Wall 09/25/12 - 09:48 am
1
1
Is Religion at UN Political or what?

Today is the 6th Feast of Yahweh, God given in the book of Leviticus 23; it's called Yom Kippur or Day of Atonement.
This was a day when the High Preist of Israel would take the sacrificial blood into the Holy of Holies and sprinkle it on the mercy seat of the Ark of the Covenant for the Covering of sins for the next year for the Nation of Israel.
This Feast was performed yearly and as the work Kippur implies it was a Temperary Covering of sin ment for Israel and ALL people to look foreward to the coming Messiah who would shead his own blood as a lamb and permanantly Atone for the sins of mankind forever.
The finished work of Yeshua in 33 ad accomplished exactly what Yahweh had promised since the fall of Adam and is relinquishing of mans reign of earth in rightiousness for God.
The Jewish Temple, HISTORY shows was destroyed in 70 ad by the Romans under Titus and his 10th legion made up of Arabs forced into military service for Rome.
This was the Last time Jews were able to practice the Feast of Yom Kippur and sacrifice anything for the Covering of their sins.
Since the Jews that have not come to accept Yeshua as their Messiah who did atone for their sins as well as everyones, exactly as and all inaccordance with the Torah and the Prophets, they have no remission of sins which ALL the World does have in Yeshua when they accept his Free gift for forgiveness of sins eternally.
This bit of news may not be Politically Correct, but it is absolutely true and not only condemns Jews, but every religion that does not accept Yahweh Gods provisions for redemption ONLY thru his son Yeshua's shead blood on Calvarys Cross 1979 years ago.
It's either Yahweh Gods FREE way of salvation leading to acceptance or it's Your way and your way means you must pay for your sins and thats not acceptable unto God.
It's ALL about Gods plans, not mans.

Irans President is speaking today about the religious war we are all involved in and the need to rid the world of Israel for a World Leader and his religious rule, as in sharia law.
So why do you think that Jews and christians are always the problem to all these False Religions? Could it be that tey are the ever reminders of Yahweh Gods plan and purpose for the world and that Old serpent, Lucifer?
Ever since God chose Abram out of Iraq and said that thru his seed all the world would be blessed by the coming Messiah and redemption for mankind Satan has tried NONSTOP to wipe the Jews and True Christians off the map so there would be no more remembrance of Gods Promises.
So as we observe this Holiest Day to remember what Yahweh has done by giving of his son Yeshua on the Cross for everyone that would come i'll ask this.
Is it OK for Irans Prez. Mamoud IMADAMNUTJOB to be using a Political Arena at the UN for his Religious rants against Jews & Christians and ALL that support Israel? Also do you really think that there is no room for Religion in Politics, or do you think as i do that Politics are all about Religion in the Battle for Good or Evil world control?

Yahweh and Yeshau are Greater by the Way!

Watchman on the Wall
2893
Points
Watchman on the Wall 09/25/12 - 10:28 am
1
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ALL Politics are Religious in Nature,ALL.

Please help me out here smart ones with the claims that Religion does not belong in Politics.
REALLY? Reality shows that EVERY ELECTION has to do with what we BELIEVE or don't BELIEVE in regard to what the politicians are telling us and what we are hoping for by voting for them.
Now if that is not a pure RELIGIOUS MOTIVE of voting for some one that we BELIEVE IN, what is?
Lets take the OBAMANATION OF DESOLATIONS claims and see if Religion is involved or not.
Obama's word are we can't wait, we must act now to bring about a FUNDAMENTAL CHANGE AND HOPE TO BELIEVE IN.
Now if this claim by the chosen one is not of a Religious nature and desire to change the Old Way America Believes by changing OUR Fundamentals/Constitutional Rights for his New Hope that must be Believed in NOW, then just what is it.
Every action one makes is due to OUR BELIEFS, either the Truth or False beliefs.

NO, infact, Religion does belong in Politics and in fact Politics are ALL due to OUR Religious Beliefs and only those that lie to themselves about reality are the worst off for their BELIEFS.
OUR HOPE in a Political Party or Politician are intirely Religious and it's a continual thing as well of people making their choice of what or who to believe in, ALWAYS.
As for me and my house we will serve the LORD and look for his Blessed Hope daily which can only be found in Yeshua, Jesus The Christ.
So where does your Hope lie, in men like your chosen one Obama or in the LORD and his anointed Chosen One Jesus?

Yahweh and Yeshua are Greater by the Way!

leewaytooo
1983
Points
leewaytooo 09/26/12 - 03:02 am
3
1
seems to me that if there is

seems to me that if there is freedom "of" religion,

then freedom "from" religion is true too.

Suss
3883
Points
Suss 09/26/12 - 07:01 am
3
1
Belief system is important

What one believes and how they treat people based on their beliefs do matter. If Romney is all about money, money, money for him and his friends he will find another war to turn a buck. His lack of compassion is only exceeded by his greed.

Watchman on the Wall
2893
Points
Watchman on the Wall 09/27/12 - 10:27 am
1
2
Again ALL Politics are Religious based

When people vote they voted for like minded people to govern them and others and in order to IMPOSE THEIR BELIEFS on others for means of controling and fulfilling a desire goal, EITHER FOR GOOD OR FOR EVIL.

PERIOD, and if you say that thats not the case your either stupid or a lier which implies that your trying to further your beliefs on others by means of false pretences in regard to facts or reality.

If you voted for Obama then you in fact are a BELIEVER in his promise of Fundamental Change of America and the promise of a New Hope to BELIEVE IN. Obama's words, not mine, and all that voted for him do so on what he says and does and promises to do, all of which is Religious bases no matter how you try to BS your selves or others that it's not.

The TRUTH will win at the end of the War between Good & Evil, thats a promise you can depend on and it's promiser is God himself, the rule maker and judge of all.

Plese vote, but remember your votes are Religious and dependant on your beliefs in men and their religions, rather than God and his only hope of fundamental change.

Yahweh and Yeshau are Greater by the way!

Watchman on the Wall
2893
Points
Watchman on the Wall 09/27/12 - 07:51 pm
1
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Mr Paul D. Morrison

So Mr Morrison did you see where Obama said that it is not acceptable for anyone to slander Mohammad the wonderful prophet and religion of Islam?
Tell me sir is this religious or political or are they the same combined into a threat from OUR President towards everyone thats not a muslim?
Is this making a choice of which religion is right and should be accepted while at the same time condemning all others which Islam condemns and slanders and even kills the followers of?

OUR Presidents Religion is his Politics and thats what Islam is all about. Islam is a Governmental State, ruled by forced religion on EVERYONE with it's Political agenda set on a Global conquest of all nations and an Islamic state of Islam for everyone.

HISTORICALLY EVERYTHINGS RELIGIOUS WORLD WIDE IN REGARD TO POLITICS, ALWAYS HAS BEEN, ALWAYS WILL BE.
not yelling here just expounding alittle.

Yahweh and Yeshau are Greater by the way!

cormit
226
Points
cormit 09/28/12 - 08:54 am
3
2
to Watchman on the Wall

8 responses to this article and five lengthy ones coming from "Watchman on the Wall" reminds me of a little expression I learned long ago.

"Those who talk the most usually have the least to say".

radiokenai
562
Points
radiokenai 09/28/12 - 10:21 am
0
0
Not Sure about all you Liberal Free Wheelers..
Unpublished

But I would rather have a President in Office who believes in God, Believes in Jesus, Believes in Love and Morality...

Rather than a President who LIES about his Religion to fool ignorant Liberals into believing something he is not. While at the same time, he believes in a religion that orders your death because you are an infidel.

I think we should have another "burn a kuran" day...since that satanic worshiping propaganda is targeted at to killing us "infidels".

Who do you trust in office of such power?

A President who cares about the people, or one who wants his people dead for Allah?

If you are too stupid to see that, then it is no wonder you are still waving your hope and change banner.

But don't call me when you are singled out as an infidel!

Norseman
3593
Points
Norseman 09/28/12 - 12:20 pm
3
2
ignore feature

I put him on ignore months ago. Thank gawd for that feature.

Watchman on the Wall
2893
Points
Watchman on the Wall 09/28/12 - 02:08 pm
2
2
IGNORE FOR NOW, BUT NOT ETERNALLY

Please continue to enjoy your freedom of choice in preparing or not preparing for coming troubles that any blinde deaf fool can see and hear pointing to Global termoil for everyone with no exceptions or escaping it's coming.
Please also feel free to express your displeasure with my continual warnings of the coming trouble and judgements against all ungodly by the true God and creator of all which signs clearly point are very close, it's your right to do so.
Please also be advised that you can Ignore the warning all around you given by many differant people, including me, but someday you will have to face reality and make atonement for your free will choices of not preparing while you still had time to do so.
It's also my right to warn people out of love, not out of fear, to prepare for the coming Global troubles that as i said before a blind deaf fool can understand are coming and at an alarming rate of speed. Your just not gonna ever understand until you fall out of love with yourselves and start loving others as Jesus loves you, no matter how good you think you are.
It's all about Jesus and his love for his creation, not about me.

Yahweh and Yeshua are Greater by the way!

polladw
13
Points
polladw 09/28/12 - 10:39 pm
1
2
watchman on the wall

I understand what your saying, and i agree...

lkpomn912
931
Points
lkpomn912 09/30/12 - 04:47 pm
1
2
Watchman on the wall – agreed, ignore for now.

Watchman on the wall – agreed, ignore for now.
Ignore the opposition and you may become Ignorant. Possibly an Ignoramus which is Ignoble. Ignite your Ignominy by steeling yourselves and create Ignescent thoughts, ere you become like Ignimbrites and ignominious ins-ig-nicants.

Watchman on the Wall
2893
Points
Watchman on the Wall 09/30/12 - 07:14 pm
0
2
Hereafter or Later is all Alaskans have

Hereafter of Later is All Alaskans have because by the time we get done casting the Majority of OUR vote here in Alaska for Romney the race will already have been won.
Alaska and Hawaii means nothing before the Presidential Election and will mean nothing after it. When it's over we will either have the very same Obama with his Desolation of America Dream or Romney who does have a Dream of saving America, but will be kicking against the prick.
Those that have planned OUR future and the Worlds long ago for their coming world order ruled by satan and his False Saviour and False Prophet, Religion will have their day and wish of global control for 7 years. WHY? Because the True God has said so and it will happen just as God said and the evil rulers of this present worlds end will come afterwards when Jesus judges them all at his coming to end Armageddon.
So when we argue and fight here in Alaska on this web site affording us our freedom of free speach(sometimes if the article aurthor decides to do so) we are only fighting OUR VERY CLOSE NEIGHBORS that will be struggling to survive with or be destroyed with when America does fall.
America will fall along with all the world into that One World Order which OUR dollar bill has advertised they wanted for many years with these words NOVUS ORDO SECLORIUM, New Secular/World Order.
As Alaskans we are placed in a very obscure out of reach place that most the world could care less about due to our lack of population, and accessability at least i hope thats the case when the USA Falls with ALL the World any day now.

PLease vote this Tuesday and in November as well that is if we make it till November as a Soverign nation.
Why do i say if we make it till November? Because it only takes a few hours to a day for a nation or major city to Fall forever, as Isaiah 17; for one says that Damascus, Syria would have terrior in the evening and in the morning they would be no more, never inhabited again, which has not happened yet but could any day and that goes for America as well.
I'll vote for the person closest to my Moral compass even though we totally disagree Doctrinally and Theology wise pertaining to salvation found only in Jesus Christ and his completed work, not my personal working for acceptance.
Romney gets my vote even though i think the ABAMINATION OF DESOLATION, i mean OBAMANATION OF DESOLATION, will get his wish of fundamentally changing America into a 3rd world nation as he uses OUR Borrowed Money to finiance & help EVERY QURAN OBEDIENT MUSLIM world wide move closer to their promise of flying their Islamic flags from the White House someday soon and ALL the world for their desired Sharia Law Caliphate and single religion for all. Could Islams Dream which Obama Approves of and works for at every turn be that Revelation 13, world order?

So yes, Religion does belong in Politics and only those that refuse the simple truth of History past and history future as promised under Gods Political Kingdom ruled by Jesus Christ and his Religion will be prepared for whats coming.
The Religious Battle is a Political one and is ment to Save or Destroy and the Bible says that 2/3rds of ALL nature will be destroyed during the Tribulation period of 7 years under Satans Last stand against all that God has claimed as his and loves, all of which Satan hates.

Please understand these words and vote, either UP or DOWN as if your life depended on it, which it does, now & eternally.

Yahweh and Yeshua are Greater!

Watchman on the Wall
2893
Points
Watchman on the Wall 09/30/12 - 09:07 pm
0
2
Many differant bloggers

As i have said before i believe that the authors of articles are the ones that regulate things said and remove differant posts that relay the truth which is contrary to many articles.
I had my posts removed on the wonderful land fill and SUPPOSED recycle plan when a simple minded person like me can witness on any given day of the week that there are countless materials just buried out there that could be used to help those in need in many areas of life.
My calling attention to the blatant LIES of recycling caused the article to be totally removed after i rewrote my original posts pointing out the LIES.
This removal of my comments also happened around Sept. 22 with my posts about the 3 candidates for Soldotna Police Chief being removed by the author, then later on added back as in their original forms.
This week my comments were also removed as i spoke about Chris Jennes' blatant hate filled comments towards Clint Eastwoods referance to the empty chair of Obama which is in referance to OUR Presidents continual absents in running America because he is either more interested in sports or Talk shows for advancing his Rock Star status than running the country.
This was supposed to be a movie review, but turned into a Political free for all and many comments were removed for saying so and i believe that Chris Jennes was the person that removed them as ALL aurthors have access and ability to do so, and in fact it falls under their job titles.

My other thought is about ALL the high numbers of new bloggers that post a few words and are hardly never heard from again on an article, except on articles by the very same aurthors on differant subjects are written then they pop up again, could these also be clarion staff with access to many web names stirring the pot usually?

Just wondering out loud folks as there seems to be a pattern of little trolls dropping poop comments then vanishing.
I wonder if my ideas are linedrive homers or outs with what i see on this Clarion web site ment to inform EVERYONE, NOT JUST A SELECT FEW, which seems to be the case as of late on many articles or letters to the Clarion.
It does appear to me that the Clarion is sounding many mixed tunes which causes much anger and discontent amoung it's readers that are seeking Fair and Truthful unbioused reporting of the National and Global news, so we can prepare properly for whats coming.

Why isn't the Clarion and in fact ALL news agencies riding out on their horses shouting what any common senced person can see as reality in the fact that "THE QURAN OBEDIENT COMMANDED KILLERS OF ALL THAT REJECT ISLAM & SHARIA LAW MUSLIMS ARE COMING."
OBEDIENT means to obey or carry out certain commands or orders given by a supposed higher authority, as well as obeying a True Higher Authority, the True God, and his name is Yahweh.
There is just Something about the Curve the Clarion is throwing all of us that just seems not to be as it appears in regard to Freedom of Speach by Alaskans when we take time to really keep our eye on the ball. I believe it is Religious in Nature directed towards a Political end for massive control of the people and that most involved in this persute are unaware of what they are really working and wishing for in their desired Utopia ment for total evil and distruction of all life on earth, even OBEDIENT ONES working for false gods.

Watchman on the Wall
2893
Points
Watchman on the Wall 10/05/12 - 11:54 am
0
2
Messiah says don't be DUPED

Did ya see where the messiah Obama, the SUPER DUPER DUPER of ALL TIMES has warned believers in his Fals Political Religion not to be DUPED by Romney with all his slick talk and Facts about Reality, that are really lies according to his SUPER DUPER DUPER messiahship?

Don't pay any attention to the man behind the curtain folks, just do as your told by the SUPER DUPER DUPER messiah who is lead us all down that Yellow Highway to Chinahood, or Default and Global economic collapse from Americas default.

Every things right on schedual folks just as God planned and has allowed mankind to have it their way untill God says ENOUGH, like Jalo did in the Movie ENOUGH, and then the planned and prepared for Butt kicking started until the evil was eradicated ushering in a New beginning.

radiokenai
562
Points
radiokenai 10/06/12 - 03:10 pm
0
0
I ask you this..,.
Unpublished

...would you rather have a President with Morals, Integrity and Honesty in the White House who believes in the Constitution and the Freedom of Religion....

...Or would you rather have obama in there who LIES about his faith as a Christian (that fooled you into voting for him) when actually his satanic versus is a order to have me (an infidel) murdered in the name of allah.

Think about that for a moment. Our Constitution states "Freedom of Religion". So my Religion and Patriotism of our Country dictates that I must be tolerant of our current presidents religion.

Yet his religion is AGAINST the Constitution and believes I should be killed.

Now tell me again, you don't believe Religion should be in Politics?

I want a President who believes in (1) NATION UNDER GOD!

It shows the Morals, Integrity and Honesty of the man in charge.

CarliKing
21
Points
CarliKing 10/07/12 - 01:41 am
1
0
Awww, C'Mon!!!

Freedom of Religion expressly does NOT mean "freedom to shove your beliefs down somebody else's throat." Prior to the American Revolution, colonies had their own official religions, supported by taxpayers, with fines payable for missing church or failing to abide by the local sect's doctrinal rules. Some of said rules, incidentally, would be quite a shock to modern churchgoers; most would consider them immoral, or at least highly distasteful.

Delegates to the Second Constitutional Convention were very aware of this part of their cultural heritage; that's why a stricture AGAINST institutionalized religion was written into the Bill of Rights.

How ironic that, in the name of "respecting what the Founding Fathers intended," so many are working overtime to set this Constitutional principle on its ear. Even sadder is the way some people use fanaticism like a drug, inducing the mentally lazy to shift those few cortical neurons that haven't already atrophied into neutral until they stall out.

Watchman on the Wall
2893
Points
Watchman on the Wall 10/07/12 - 03:05 pm
0
1
GOD NEVER CHANGED THE RULES, MEN DID

God has never changed the Rules to live by or be saved by, men have.
ONCE AGAIN, can any of you really honestly say that Politics are not Religious Ideals?
If you do then please explain Communism, Socialism, Marxism Islam, Mormonism, Judaism as well as ALL other Political parties which control people by Religious means and even Christianity is a Politically controled Governmental institution formed by God himself.
Thats why the many differant Religions which are Politically elected and control people.
Mankind has since Day 1 wanted to change GODS RULES for OUR OWN, thus we see Bad Religious Political Parties have sprung up every where and they all mean to Change what God said, for what they want instead.

ALL POLITICS ARE RELIGIOUS, and depend on Believers of said Politics with their hopes and changes in order to come to power, ALL OF THEM.
It's your freedom to choose what Political Religion you want to believe in and faithfully support in it's attempt to remove Gods Rules and True Religion in Christ, for their rules and False Religions of Antichrists.
So my question is do you really believe that Religion and Politics are not joined at the hip, and if you do believe that they are not joined then what do you BELIEVE and support?

Watchman on the Wall
2893
Points
Watchman on the Wall 10/07/12 - 03:14 pm
0
1
Allow me to predict this

At any given moment the World shall see Damascus, Syria be totally destroyed over night to the point of never being inhabited again.
This Politically Religious action will usher in a World War as we see Russia, Iran and other allies of Russia's, all muslim allies by the way. This war will draw Russia, Iran and many other nations into war against ISRAEL for A RELIGIOUS POLITICALLY MOTIVATED DESIRE TO CONTROL ALL God said was his for eternity, Gods Chosen People, Land of Israel and Holy City of Jerusalem are Gods prized possestions and satan hate that fact and has tried to contol or destroy each forever.

A Religious Political war of Good against Evil is coming real soon, and when Damascus vanishes over night you had better be motivated to Join the Religious Political Party of Gods, not satans/mans or else your gonna loose for eternity, and your single free VOTE of UP or DOWN is all you'll get.

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