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Here's a way to steer clear of the cliff

Posted: November 14, 2012 - 10:26am

In light of the oncoming fiscal cliff I would hope to challenge some of our great thinkers to strut their stuff. We need some ideas that will put money back into the treasury not just through taxes! I think I have one and know for sure there are some very brilliant people reading this who could expound upon its content. So if you can take this idea and run with it or use it to spark a fire, free to get after it.

There are a lot of taxpayers retiring with pensions that make it possible to live without their added Social Security income. However there are no options that make fiscal since to these good folks to give up that income. Charging these taxpayers higher cost for the Medicare and Medicaid they have already paid for isn’t the answer. I have an approach that would cost nothing to the taxpayers and leave billions in the National Treasury. At the same time this approach would meet the income needs of these retirees without government cost. Got your attention yet?

If a SSI recipient should choose to forgo early retirement payments, for example, of $1,500 a month and just say to SSI, keep my check, that money would cover the taxes on a 401K allotment of $6,000. This money would be paid the retiree from their 401K to pay back their $1,500 sacrifice and allow them more freedom of access to the money they have saved in their 401K pension plans.

The tremendous cash flow into the economy this could bring would be a very painless stimulus. It would also help wrestle the wealth of our retirees from the Central Banks controlling 401K fortunes. They could reinvest as they chose.

Let’s run the math on a 62-year-old retiree who said keep my $1,500 a month until they turn 66 which amounts to $72,000. A corresponding $288,000 could be withdrawn from their 401K over that 4 years and reinvested the way the retiree sees fit.

If only 10,000 of the people retiring every month said I want that option the savings would be $720 million over the first 4 years from just that month’s participants. That would also be $2.8 billion reinvested in our national economy. So show me a better way for 10,000 retirees to have a positive impact on the national economy and you’ll have my ear, does this catch your ear?

It’s difficult for me to do the math on the national level as I wouldn’t want to under- or overestimate the possible savings. But I would ask President Obama to think outside that box he is politically forced to walk around in Washington. Sir, you make this fly and I’ll promise you a fair start on the road to recovery. And I’ll put my money behind what I say by being the first to say “You make this happen and I’ll be the first to hand you back that check!”

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BigRedDog
659
Points
BigRedDog 11/14/12 - 11:48 am
3
1
Talk is cheap

If this isn't a wash what is? The participants would just be paying the normal taxes on a 401K withdrawl no harm no faul. It only leaves one real issue to be determined, and that is what happens in 4 years. Will the SSI then award the full retirement benefits to these applicants who really didn't take a dime of thier SSI income until age 66? That is the rest of the carrot, the real incentive to make the deal have some real appeal.
This approach would be an absolutely painless stimulus package that would have the potential to start this economy moving of it's own enertia. Maybe we could stop those money presses at the treasury a few hours each month with this approach. This could be extended to current SSI retirees who are allready recieving thier benefits. Many have 401K assets that seem dificult to obtain with out selling the farm.
So this sounds like something that has a potential to make a very big impact at No Cost to the Taxpaying Public. If somebody can't make this fly, you better dust of your political wings because there is some very thin air blowing in that economic wind we call the National Economy.

BigRedDog
659
Points
BigRedDog 11/15/12 - 06:14 am
2
1
Want this thing to work?

Where are all the cry baby whiners, with all the super stupid junk everyone has been commenting and blogging about, let someone say something rational and everybody bales. This is a clear path win win for America and Americans, and to think we have thousands of economic, and Department of Commerce employees in Washington and nobody has come up with something this simple is amazing. But the numbers are very real and I don't hear ONE thing from anybody in Washington that even comes close to offering a viable plan to save SSI a nickel let alone $720,000,000 in 4 years from 10,000 retirees.
All paths checked and no rocks unturned to find pathways that help US out of this financial bind was the word I heard right after the election. Well WT_ is it going to take to make something useful happen in America today? We as a nation need a few ideas like this to help us turn that corner. Just a few small steps aren't going to turn us hard enough to avoid this upcoming plung. Folks there really is a fiscal cliff blocking that Forward everybody is tossing around like a majic word to make it happen.
Hell go right go left but don't go straight of that cliff. Arguing about every little dot and tittle, and who knew what and when makes great press. But it isn't solving any problems and offering up any solutions to get US out of this hole. If people really want this thing to work it's time to stand up and offer answers not party policy.

Raoulduke
2889
Points
Raoulduke 11/15/12 - 06:45 am
1
2
plan

Have ALL federal employees pay into the SSI,and not into CSRS.This alone will make the SSI viable for 75 more years.Do you think we can get the people in Washington D.C. to join in with the majority?The practices of the congress for the past 4 years tell me the Obstructionist Party will continue to act like spoiled children.My way,or the highway.This is a great piece of politicking isn't it?

Raoulduke
2889
Points
Raoulduke 11/15/12 - 06:48 am
2
2
And another

Quit using the SSI monies for general fund use.We can thank Ronald Raygun for this.Did you forget?

BigRedDog
659
Points
BigRedDog 11/15/12 - 08:45 am
2
1
LBJ was there first

Why comment about who screwed it up first, the dammed thing is broken and if you can't come up with something to make it better it's going to tear a huge hole in our economy. The question here is do you have something to add to the debate that is current and has positive results. This article is the first I've seen in quite a while that offers up some genuine original thought. Is this idea going to be shuffled aside and ignored, like a too good to be true idea wasted on this scrap heep of partison political leaders?
Today is one day closer to the coughing and sputtering of a Government Running on empty. Then a repeat of past procedures to KEEP the government moving month bye month. If things are really that tight I think it's time to concider $720 million in 4 years as a significant chunck of change! Is this enough change to get somebodies attention? None of those brilliant Dept. of Commerce, Treasury, or Soc.Sec. have come up with any funds without raising taxes! Here I see a layman putting up an idea that should add significant value to the economy and there is NO response.
Change, well change I carry in my pocket; this is or should be a game changer. Yes we can only go so far and then you have to produce some change. Well this isn't chump change and I wonder will someone really hear this down in Washington or are we just talking change.

Watchman on the Wall
2893
Points
Watchman on the Wall 11/15/12 - 11:16 am
2
1
Only Pretenders here

Big Red they only want to pretend to care and want to work together and the true facts will only inflame their hate of the Reality of how bad our Bright Future really is.
Unless their eyes are opened to the Truth of whats going on in this War we all are fighting they will never come to any other way of understanding.
Remember how we both us to be blind far left liberals and involved in this sharing equally plan that allows people to get by free and hardly with no effort or work at all on their part and got all the benefits the hard workers did?
People suffer because they refuse to learn from the Warnings of the Past that will always show the Future.
Keep plugging away Biggun, but realize that there are those out there that don't want others to come to understand the Truth of Reality so they can prepare for what we see is Coming To America.
Also realize that if people are inclined to think that Republicans are the only Rich people or work in oil & gas only then there is a Major Disconnect between them and Reality, because the Democrates are just as Rich and work in oil & gas as well and when the economy falls the Rich Dems & Repubs are ALL gonna be ok, while all the rest suffer for being suckered into their Game of Pretendcare.
Keep trying though, as just maybe one will listen and the Lights go on and somebody will be home.

freedomlibertytruth
1398
Points
freedomlibertytruth 11/15/12 - 02:09 pm
2
1
I’m writing but Keep getting

I’m writing but Keep getting deleted here bigreddog. However you make good points as usual.
once again Dennis Barnard writes a good piece. His ideas and suggestions are a clean clear intelligent worthy effort as opposed to the yippiehippie ‘bright light’ nonsense of the left wing letters.

How about SSI just gives me the money I put into the system over the years. Meaning just give it BACK TO ME, the money that was taken from me by government force. Whether or not I need it, it is MY MONEY. I’ll decide what to do with it.

Norseman
2966
Points
Norseman 11/15/12 - 06:05 pm
2
1
you crying cause your posts

you crying cause your posts get deleted then maybe you need to spend a few minutes rereading the rules of the forum.

leewaytooo
1633
Points
leewaytooo 11/16/12 - 06:29 am
0
0
401k's wall street loves

401k's

wall street loves 401k's, they get to have a "market

adjustment" every so many years and take a large

amount of the people's money. all you have to do is

look at the last "adjustment" and ask all the folks that

were counting on that money to retire on.

there is nothing secure about betting/gambling with

your 401k when the stock market has the control.

not to forget the "fees" that reduce the true growth that

your 401k should be.

if you were actually 62, which you are not; 61 by my

calculations, unless you were held back a year; so

you are not giving up anything at the moment were

your plan to be implemented.

BigRedDog
659
Points
BigRedDog 11/16/12 - 05:05 pm
0
0
what you thinking LWT

When your born in Dec. even today most students turn have their 7 th birthday in the first grade. but I don't look 62 ehe?

mojo66
27
Points
mojo66 11/16/12 - 07:28 pm
2
0
Get rid of NAFTA and GATT...

Get rid of NAFTA and GATT... get rid of ALL taxes except impost and excise and get out of the undeclared fake war that has nothing to do with American's freedom.

BigRedDog
659
Points
BigRedDog 11/17/12 - 09:43 am
1
1
NO takers

Ohe all the takers seem to be on the other side. I guarantee the SSI could use $720,000,000 4 years from now. There are plenty of takers lining up and I'll bet we can find 10,000 ready to take our money. Well then line 10,000 of us up to give em what they need! Seriously, it's time for US to stand up and say enough! I have what you need right now today, and I will give it to you BIG time straight up. This plan would meet the income needs of 20,000 for 4 years with NO new taxes.
It would avoid the fiscal cliff for 20,000 at no cost to SSI or tax loss to the Fed. for every 10,000 people, you allow to pay their own way for the next 4 years. Or as long as President Obama would ask to have this program active. And even inviting current SSI recipiants to hand that check back.
It's not a lot to ask of our Gov. to allow US to participate in our own recovery, so back to the US standing UP part. Tired of sitting on that old sideline watching as our Nations wealth gets thrown into the wind? Well me to and together we are the US part of the USA. We are those lucky enough to work our fingers to the bone building these cities, states, and the very Nation we are allowing someone to Govern into the ground. Will you sit and wait for another bailout? Want to wait for that fun ride our dollar takes when the the presses work OT over at the treasury? Right now is the time to say Take this Check and Put it where it can do the most for my Nation.
I challenge 20,000 to light the lines up blogging, twittering, emailing and standing in the street shouting, take this check!

Watchman on the Wall
2893
Points
Watchman on the Wall 11/17/12 - 12:40 pm
0
1
10% from everyone

10% from every one that has any income with no deductions will resolve this issue, MAYBE.
The problem is that when you have a Govt. that wants America to fall, and this has been the case since WW II with ALL PRESIDENTS, then it's hard to fight their plan and control at every level.
We are going down and we all shall see a tax increase come Jan.1, 2013, Rich, Middle class & Poor alike.
The problem is not with those that get SSI or Medicare as these are things that we all have paid into. The problem is it's with all those that get free stuff and those that do work are paying for that free stuff, the middle class pays for this, not the rich. Those that are getting free stuff is averaging 4-1 with workers and it can and will not continue much longer.
The Rich Democrates or Republicans are not gonna suffer from a tax increase, it's the workers and small business people that will suffer and eventually give up and join all the freeloaders and the end will come for America just as is planned.
Will they do or accept any ideas to help avoid this fall, no they will not, not even the 10% tax on all that would reverse this problem if only they would do this.
Don't be DUPED into thinking they care or want to avoid this fiscal cliff that we actually have already gone off of and are actually waiting to see how hard we land and do the RESTART BUTTOM, and it's not gonna be the EAZY BUTTON, it's gonna be very hard on everyone thats not Filthy Rich.

Sam Von Pufendorf
1088
Points
Sam Von Pufendorf 11/17/12 - 03:22 pm
0
0
10% from everyone?

We will always have the upper or elite class and a lower class. The middle class has been whittled away over the last thirty years and I see no near term end to it. A flat tax is hardly fair for the masses. Those making a million dollars would pay $100,000 and those making 15 thousand would pay $1500.00 Who would that 10% affect more? That person struggling to make ends meet on $13500 or that other person that has a meagar $900,000 left. My point is, a 10% sacrifice on all tax payers parts means more sacrifice to some than others. A fair progressive tax with no deductions is reasonable. Still make all wage earners pay, but on a more equitable and fair scale.
From the inception ofthe US income taxe, there has been pregressivity (less now than in years past). Deductions were simply added to aid some and not all.
The simplest solution is STOP SPENDING more than your MAKING!

Luvflyfishing
214
Points
Luvflyfishing 11/17/12 - 04:18 pm
0
0
Not a bad idea.

This would be good for some people.
However, the majority of retirees
Do not have 401k's.
Anyone have an answer for those people?

Watchman on the Wall
2893
Points
Watchman on the Wall 11/17/12 - 05:15 pm
0
0
401K's

Hang on as all those that still have them will join all the rest of us real soon and loose everything they have in these scam money makers for others, not those that are counting on them.
SVP "STOP SPENDING" is part of the answer for now, but we still must face reality of we are over extended and will never be able to repay our national debt.
They will either default on our debt or start a war with China to default that way, either way China ain't gonna get their money and America will suffer gr8ly for this.
I think China is starting to see the writing on the gr8 wall of Americas plans and build up in the south pacific and with BO going to Taiwan, Myanmar and Cambodia this week, i would worry more if i was them.
Not wanting this action but there is no other way out of this without the total crashing of America, which also could be plan A or B, which means we are in trouble either way.
If 10% ain't enough make it 15% - 20%, it's better than the 33% going up to 36% or higher come Jan 1 for the middle class, and i bet it goes back to 2012 as well.
At any rate we are in trouble deep. ALL OF US ARE IN IT TOGETHER, and with no DingDongs or Twinkies any more it's gonna be a tough old road.

BigRedDog
659
Points
BigRedDog 11/18/12 - 06:33 am
1
0
No one to hand my check too

Isn't that a knee slapper LWT, just can't reach that spot on my back anymore. Here a guy (President Obama) is going broke in a handbasket, and you offer him the answer to the maidens prayer, just what he needs to get it going and he just does nothing! Don't you just hate it when you get that lack of response when you know you've done your part. This is my attempt to roll back the rock and watch hopefully as the American economy resurrects itself. I know I'm not the one with the power needed to light a fire under the economy but that rock I think I needed to move is gone out of the way.
I disagree with your assuming there aren't enough people retiring with 401K funds to make a big enough difference.
Disagree is really a strong word, it's more like I'm praying it works and hoping to hell your wrong. But I just can't do nothing and sincerely hope a good percentage of my fellow Americans still feel the same way. I know how the majority feels, like this eggshell economy will continue to lay the golden eggs. And I can't just watch as this great Nation I love gets Governed into the ground.

leewaytooo
1633
Points
leewaytooo 11/19/12 - 03:54 am
0
1
remember that mistake that

remember that mistake that set your situation back for a
considerable time?

when wall street makes its mistakes/corrections the
country as a whole (except for the 1%) takes more than just a considerable time to recover.

then when you add "time" as it relates to folks that
are in their 50's, 60's; there really isn't all that much left
to recoup the losses in their retirement fund.

so gamble with wall street if you wish, just remember,
the house always wins overall.

really sucks that they keep moving that goal line, keep changing the rules, keeping that thought/chase of a comfortable life, just beyond...

just to keep you shuffling along.

as to your "back", was referring to you and my back and
gym class. np, just kid stuff...for the most part you were
ok... last i saw of you... you were in the q hut.

Raoulduke
2889
Points
Raoulduke 11/19/12 - 04:13 am
0
0
saving

CUT our DEFENSE spending by 50% or more.We do not need any more weapons of destruction.We already have the weaponry to destroy the world as We know it .Remember the USSR.They were spending more than half of their GNP on Defense.Just as the USA is doing as I type.Let us start at the the top first.Then consider cuts elsewhere.Like the civilian contracts for cooks,gate guards,and the $20 Hallibrton hamburgers.

BigRedDog
659
Points
BigRedDog 11/19/12 - 05:01 am
1
0
This is a wash

Talk about a painless stimulus that wouldn't cost the tax payers a dime this is it. How many thousands upon thousands of Hurricane Sandy victims would love to have access to their own money for a bailout to help them rebuild their lives? Most of the retireees that have a nest egg in a 401K aren't going to run out in the street and throw that money away. There will be a few that blow it and many many more will take the income they need of the top and reinvest the rest in America. You see these 401K fortunes are not the type of folks that are pleased with $20,000,000 Christmas bonuses to the CEO's of the BIG trading firms. But the main jist of this plan would be to have control of the funds a worker put away for their prosperity, not some CEO"S.
I'm not kidding a bit when I say I want to give SSI $72,000. You know it shouldn't be that hard to give away $72K, I know there are lot of folks that really need that money. Uncle Sam has huge enrollments of people each month with no place to turn and I can't find one to take my $72K get real!

Sam Von Pufendorf
1088
Points
Sam Von Pufendorf 11/19/12 - 06:24 am
0
0
Rauladuke / Defense Spending

I somewhat agree with you on defense spending except that may tend to be a sort of Catch 22. If you cut defense spending in half, now you have more unemployed as there is more than simply weapons involved in military spending. There are bed linens, tires, food, plastics, etc. Much of it (not all) is produced in the USA. A responsible phasing of defense spending and redirection of funds would be more appealing to the economy. Whether we agree or not, we have become accustomed to feeding on the government teat and I'm not simply speaking of the "47%." As the formula prescribes: "for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."

Sam Von Pufendorf
1088
Points
Sam Von Pufendorf 11/19/12 - 06:32 am
0
0
How many retiree's are collecting?

By my calculation, to save one trillion in a single year, one would need to have 14 million retiree's that would be able to forgo their SSI and live on their 401K. Even saving a portion of that over time would be a long shot. However, that someone is thinking "outside of the box" is a good thing and more of us should do the same!

Raoulduke
2889
Points
Raoulduke 11/19/12 - 10:01 am
0
0
defense savings

We are still putting money into our Defense spending with little or no accountability of the monies.Just spend.Remember the $700 hammers?The monies are being used in the same manner.We are paying civilians to do the same job as our military.They do not refer to them as Blackwater Types,but they are the same.Making 6 figure monies.They are referred to as contractor's,but to any veteran,or military.They are called mercenaries.Keep the corporations from running our military,and government.

Sam Von Pufendorf
1088
Points
Sam Von Pufendorf 11/19/12 - 11:11 am
0
0
Efficiency in Spending

Raoulduke, now were are getting somewhere! If we became more efficient in HOW we spent money, we may be able to get the same goods and services for a lesser cash outlay. This applies to all government spending! Administrative costs more than likely take up more of any government departmental budget than the services they actually provide. Our government, in effect, will hire a million dollar consultant to show them how to save 100 thousand dollars. Spend a dollar to save a dime! Eliminate the inefficiencies and the military will stay the same only cost less! Eliminate unnecessary or ineffective departments (Dept of Energy comes to mind) and redistribute those people to make other departments more efficient. And finally, get our congress to stop working soley for their individual constituents and start working for the country as a whole. Let's face it... we've become a "what's in it for me?" society.

BigRedDog
659
Points
BigRedDog 11/19/12 - 11:16 am
0
0
Focus dukee focus

I'm talking about 10,000 retirees having a greater effect on our economy than I think you can imagine. Just leaving $720M on the table is just the start, this could very well benefit 10,000 other American's needing a helping hand. Then with the $2.88 Billion in their hands just these 10,000 folks start to be a major economic stimulus. Extending this to current retirees could open up the door to their 401K funds and who knows where this could go. Your right I can't hand you a trillion dollars unless this is straight accross the board to all retirees and I bet it would be close in 4 years! But has ANYONE offered you a dime lately that didn't come out of your own pocket!
The millions or folks on the East coast trying to rebuild would probably rather use their own funds to do that or at least have their own funds to assist. But this money could be reinvested in local banks and Credit Unions and many of the dreams these folks would care to persue. The main point being, our Nation is in a bind; this is the way I feel 10,000 retirees could have the maximum positive impact on our economy.
I'm no statistician and for your info liars figure and figures lie. My goal is to slow down or stop those printing presses over at the Treasury Dept. just a few hours a week , month, or year.

Raoulduke
2889
Points
Raoulduke 11/19/12 - 11:47 am
0
0
saving

A few hundred million dollars isn't anything compared to the very multi BILLIONS of dollars spent weekly on an unnecessary WAR.Bringing our troops home would,or should save the country some monies.

Sam Von Pufendorf
1088
Points
Sam Von Pufendorf 11/19/12 - 12:16 pm
0
0
I commend you!

Again, I don't beleive there to be anything wrong with your idea and I actually commend you for thinking outside of the box. After all ... every penny counts!
What we are facing on the Federal deficit is an interest rate of roughly $4,000,000,000 per day (and growing). While your idea has merit, the numbers don't mesh. For example; Fidelity Investments, one of the largest holders of 401K investment portfolio's with 11.8 million accounts reported an average net worth per account of $74,000 in Q1/12. The alarming point is ... that is a 64% increase over Q1/09. The money just isn't in those accounts unless they were properly managed. And in todays volitile markets that is difficult. Grant it, there is a percentage of large 401K's, but not enough to have millions of people spending from those accounts rather than collecting SS. Most need both to survive.
Sources:
http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/quickfacts/stat_snapshot/
http://www.usdebtclock.org/

BigRedDog
659
Points
BigRedDog 11/20/12 - 06:37 am
0
0
SVP

09 was a rough year, and my own 401K was just 60% of what the 2Q,2012 totals were. Most of the recovery for my funds started accelerating in the 2Q,2011. But all speculating aside, with how many tens of thousands working in the Commerce Dept., IRS, nobody has even had a shade of an idea that put ONE dime of money back into the pie. I know a mere $720 million probably won't make a very big difference, but I would sure like to start there.
We could just call it the "All one guy could do stimulus plan", Heck what's that number over at the CMH, man it's really starting to bother me, "I can't even give $72,000 away!" But you see putting $72K down would really be worth $144K in the pie. Because they wouldn't have to pay me that money, and could use it to help with the 47%. That does not thrill me but if they don't take my money and pay them, they will just Print more to pay them!
Another thing this plan woold accomplish is to get the taxes paid on a lot of that money sitting in those 401Ks. Then that money would be secure in the retirees hands that earned it before some beaurocrat could screw us out of it. Or the value of those portfolioes crashes AGAIN. Most smart retirees have moved their money to an annuity or simmilar type of plan as those are the only plans that guarantee 5% growth. Should I just role up this plan and toss it in the fire, take my SSI, fire off that innuity and just go play? When I see that 1st SSI check get deposited I'll feel bad that the plan didn't work but not that bad! Because you see I really tried to give $72,000 away, and in this madness we call an economy, I could find no takers! You have got to be kidding no takers, with all the poiticians trying to steal our money; and I can't even give $72K away. What was that number again?

beaverlooper
2607
Points
beaverlooper 12/09/12 - 04:50 pm
0
0
5% ?

BRD Where did you get an annuity that pays 5%? I want one!!!

Suss
3316
Points
Suss 12/09/12 - 06:10 pm
0
0
Ohio National 5%

Not available in Alaska, but still available..https://www.ohionational.com/portal/site/client/menuitem.4a846f155f69987c4c214c2117f761ca/

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