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A red herring in the gun control debate

Posted: January 14, 2013 - 9:39am

I lived in Alaska for 18 years beginning in 1967. I taught school in a variety of settings, flew airplanes, was in business, and babbled for a while in a column on these pages. There were ups, and downs. Since leaving, I’ve lived for a long time in several countries where guns are vigorously controlled (Australia, France, Ireland, China, and The United Kingdom). I have come to think the following is obviously true.

I have been a gun owner and hunter for over 50 of my 71 years. Hunting moose and caribou for the table, many of my days have been spent in areas of Alaska well populated by brown bear. Doing so, I have never felt I needed more than the five cartridges held in the magazine of my hunting rifle. Only once did I see another hunter bring a military style, assault rifle, to the field, only to be greeted with knowing smiles from more experienced riflemen. We wondered why the hunter didn’t spend time improving his marksmanship, instead of packing all those heavy extra bullets around in an area where one shot should be enough to kill the prey we were after.

There is a red herring being championed by the NRA and other gun fanatics, unscrupulous legislators, gun manufacturers and those in debt to them, and uninformed, inexperienced members of the press. It is the idea that it is too difficult, even impossible, to define the line separating weapons a private citizen has a legitimate need for, and right to have, from those for which there is no Constitutional, hunting, or self-protection justification for owning. That is nonsense.

We need to make a clear distinction between the firepower of law enforcement, and that of the general populace. That distinction protects the law abiding, and threatens those who are not. It will take many years to do the job completely. We have polluted our environment with millions of guns that should not be in private hands. Collecting them will take effort, education, and, from time to time, force. It should be a federal felony for a private citizen to possess any weapon capable of semiautomatic or fully automatic fire after a period of “No questions asked” opportunity to turn them in for disposal.

The Second Amendment was written at a time when the most powerful weapon a person could carry was a muzzle loading, smooth bore, flintlock long gun. Only an expert could fire it as many as four times a minute, and not for very long. Modern semiautomatic and fully automatic weapons are able to fire four to nine times a second. They may be fitted with magazines carrying one hundred or more cartridges available for purchase over the internet. No questions are asked beyond, “Credit card number?” That is a situation the civilized world legitimately calls “insane.”

We have already barred the private possession of fully automatic weapons except under strict registration requirements. They are almost never used in the commission of a crime. Regarding semiautomatic firearms, we have seen schools shot up, people cut down on the streets of our cities and university campuses, gun fights with our police forces that kill and injure public servants, and a broadening opinion among the populace that such weapons should be in their closet or desk drawer as the result of our toleration of their profusion. Many states now permit people to have such weapons hidden on their person. It is time to take a simply defined and politically demanding action to reduce substantially such scenarios, and partially redeem our standing among the civilized countries of the world.

We should immediately outlaw the private possession of any weapon capable of semiautomatic or automatic fire, and magazines for any firearm capable of holding more than six cartridges. Again, barring such weapons is entirely consistent with the citizens right under the Constitution to bear arms. Under such a law, a citizen could still lawfully possess revolvers, single shot weapons, pump action shotguns, and/or bolt, pump, or lever action rifles, even a muzzle loading, smooth bore, flintlock long gun. We would be prevented from being able to cut down trees, or huddled masses in a mall, with a burst from our “hunting rifle.”

We should be.

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JDBishop5
182
Points
JDBishop5 01/19/13 - 03:47 am
0
1
Because it is such a trial

Because it is such a trial for many here to look up different points of view, here is the text of the 2004 statement from the President of the International Association Of Chiefs Of Police regarding the 'Assault Weapons Ban.'

President's Message: Reauthorization of the Assault Weapons Ban

By Chief Joseph M. Polisar, Garden Grove, California

By the time you read this column, it is highly probable that the federal ban on semiautomatic assault weapons will have expired and once again these weapons will begin to flood our communities and threaten our officers.

First passed in 1994, the assault weapons ban required domestic gun manufacturers to stop production of semiautomatic assault weapons and ammunition magazines holding more than 10 rounds except for military or police use. Imports of assault weapons not already banned by administrative action under Presidents Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush were also halted.

Since the law was enacted, the ban has proven remarkably effective in reducing the number of crimes involving assault weapons. Since 1994 the proportion of assault weapons traced to crimes has fallen by a dramatic 66 percent. Public opinion polls continue to prove that more than 75 percent of the public supports a reauthorization of the current ban.

The IACP has been a strong supporter of the assault weapons ban since 1992, and our membership approved a resolution calling for its reauthorization at our 2003 conference. The membership took this action because we, as law enforcement executives, understand that semiautomatic assault weapons pose a grave risk to our officers and the communities they are sworn to protect.

It is deeply troubling that Congress and the administration have so far failed to reauthorize this critically important legislation.

Assault weapons are routinely the weapons of choice for gang members and drug dealers. They are regularly encountered in drug busts and are all too often used against our officers. In fact, one in five law enforcement officers slain in the line of duty between January 1, 1998, and December 31, 2001, was killed with an assault weapon, according to "Officer Down," a report from the Violence Policy Center. The weapons in question—including the Colt AR-15, a semiautomatic version of the M-16 machine gun used by our armed forces, the Uzi, and the Tec-9 pistol, whose manufacturer's advertisements hailed its "fingerprint-resistant" finish—have been used in countless murders such as the Stockton schoolyard and Columbine High School shootings.

Opponents of the assault weapons ban often argue that the ban only outlawed certain weapons because of their "cosmetic features" and not because they are inherently more dangerous than other weapons. This is simply not true.

While most rifles are designed to be fired from the shoulder and depend upon the accuracy of a precisely aimed projectile, semiautomatic assault weapons are designed to maximize lethal effects through a rapid rate of fire. Assault weapons are designed to be spray-fired from the hip, and because of their design a shooter can maintain control of the weapon even while firing many rounds in rapid succession.

The cosmetic features opponents of the ban point to are actually military features such as silencers, flash suppressors, pistol grips, folding stocks, and bayonets that were designed specifically to increase the lethality of these weapons and make them more concealable. Many come equipped with large ammunition magazines allowing 50 or more bullets to be fired without reloading.

Weapons of this nature serve no legitimate sporting or hunting purposes and have no place in our communities. Unless Congress acts, the firearms of choice for terrorists, drug dealers, and gang members will be back on our streets—where, once again, our officers will be outgunned by criminals.

If Congress and the administration fail to reauthorize the assault weapons ban, it will be up to the law enforcement community to demand that it be reinstated. Over the last decade, we have made significant progress in our efforts to reduce violent crime rates. The ban on assault weapons and high-capacity magazines has been a crucial component of our national crime-fighting strategy.

We must not surrender the gains that we have made.

It is vital that we, as police chiefs, take a leading role in this effort. We know the tremendous harm that these weapons can inflict on our communities and we know what the proliferation of these weapons will mean to our officers. We need to be leaders, both in word and in deed, and we must make every effort to ensure that our elected officials understand that failure to reauthorize the assault weapons ban is a significant step back for law enforcement and public safety

Our communities and the officers we lead expect this of us; our duty demands it.

Sam Von Pufendorf
1088
Points
Sam Von Pufendorf 01/19/13 - 05:59 am
1
0
JD BISHOP / Rick Ungar and Police Chiefs

I didn't say Rick wasn't credible, but thanks for bringing that to the forefront. His full article was based to one side of a story, no facts and all opinion. The fact that he is a liberal has absolutely nothing to do with his credibility and I am somewhat insulted that you may think that I would imply that. It was simply in his bio. However, his political stand point would not make him unbiased or objective, would it? I will admit, I went overboard with Ungar not being "informed" as he obviously is well read. My mistake.
Might I suggest reading the book "Un-Spun: Finding Facts in a World of Disinformation." It a very good and quick read with lots of information that I am sure you already have. I have seen you practice much of what is printed in that book. You do search out and find credible and reliable sources of information.
However, we all have one common flaw! We will find facts ... but generally only those that support our side of the argument. In many of us, it gets so blatant that in a debate, we don't even hear the others opposing view. This is sometimes called a "closed mind", but it is more human nature. In debate cIass, we are taught to debate our side of the issue. In real life, it is our job to try to understand all of the facts, even those that oppose our point of view, to make a logical decision. I have read and concurred with some of what you have written. I try to understand where you are coming from and I have supported, with facts and sources, some of your posts. However, I don't support your over all argument as you seem to cherry pick the facts such as the police chiefs being anti assault rifle. "But even though many media consider the viewpoints of big-city chiefs to represent the viewpoint of all law enforcement, chiefs do not speak for rank-and-file officers any more than Lee Iacocca spoke for all the auto workers."
One last point, if you re-visit some of my posts, you always seem to skirt the questions I ask of you. As in this post, you reply to something that was directed at kksalm even though there was a post directed to yourself concerning the amending of the constitution.

radiokenai
560
Points
radiokenai 01/19/13 - 08:42 am
0
0
Jim Bishop--spoken like a true communist!
Unpublished

It is dingbats like YOU is why our Fore Fathers implemented the 2nd Amendment in the first place!

Let be BLAST your ridiculous theory right out of the water! If people thought as you did back then, why didn't the Government seize the people arms and force them to carry bows and arrows? The Patriots of America were allowed to carry the SAME firepower as their soldiers and Law Enforcement of the time! Why is that Mr. Bishop? How can that be?

Repeat after me: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

The 2nd Amendment was not made for duck and deer hunting Mr. Bishop, it was made to protect ourselves from people who think like YOU do!

If you do not believe in America and our Constitution, then perhaps you should renounce your citizenship and move to Britain where you can love King and Country! Wait a minute, from the looks of things it looks seems you chose Ireland as your new home! Very Good! Stay there and mind your own Constitution!

WOW! And to think that we had idiots like you teaching our children disgusts me! A person of your age, having lived through the Second World War, should KNOW better!!!!

Join the NRA today people! Or be under control of people like Jim Bishop tomorrow!

Watchman on the Wall
2893
Points
Watchman on the Wall 01/19/13 - 12:08 pm
1
1
FOREVER COMFY

Obama warned that many would come forth with their ideas against his 23 edicts accusing him of a tyrinnacal power grab and that they, his worshipers need to not be swayed by their claims ment to get people to react out of fear. Basically Obama was WARNING people to BELIEVE HIM, but, not others in this EMOTIONAL ISSUE on arms & freedom.

EMOTION, n. A prostrating disease caused by a determination of the heart to the head. It is sometimes accompanied by a copious discharge of hydrated chloride of sodium from the eyes. Source: Devil's Dictionary
Noah Webster 1: [Noun] Literally, a moving of the mind or soul; hence,any agitation of mind or excitement of sensibility..
2: [Noun] In a philosophical sense, an internal motion or agitation of the mind which passes away without desire; when desire follows, the motion or agitation is called a passion..
3: [Noun] Passion is the sensible effect, the feeling to which the mind is subjected,when an object of importance suddenly and imperiously demands its attention. The state of absolute passiveness, in consequence of any sudden percussion of mind, is of short duration. The strong impression, or vivid sensation, immediately produces a reaction correspondent to its nature, either to appropriate and enjoy, or avoid and repel the exciting cause. This reaction is very properly distinguished by the term emotion. Emotions therefore, according to the genuine signification of the word, are principally and primarily applicable to the sensible changes and visible effects, which particular passions produce on the frame, in consequence of this reaction, or particular agitation of mind.. Source: Webster's 1828 American Dictionary.
Wiktionary 1: [Noun] A person's internal state of being and involuntary, subjective, physiological response to an object or a situation, based in or tied to physical state and sensory feelings. (references)

What we now see as Obama's 2nd term is about to begin is a nonstop push by him and his liberal minions, as well as his minions of welfare recievers of Free stuff, stuff that they did not have to work for but shall recieve due to support for him.
No other Liberal President has ever brough them to the edge of REALIZEATION, FULFILLMENT of the DREAM for a Socialist Society here in Amereica, untill this Chosen One came to power due to the many predictions that Obama was the ONE that would lead them into the future of their desired One World Order. They even claimed that due to his messianic speaking ability that the youth would follow as well as many others. Looks and sounds about like exactly what we have seen and been witness too for their Liberal minded Kingdom of ONE.
MY questions are these about arms as we see pressure mounting nation wide for the removal of arms owned by all those that disagree with Obama & his minions. How are they attacking those of us that disagree? By circumventing the Constitution slipping in the Backdoor with edicts that cause massive EMOTIONS on each side of the issue. Will the Liberal minions come with arms to take the arms of all the nonbelievers in Obama's DREAM?
I think they will and many of them just might even be OATH TAKERS who lied out their teeth of protecting the Constitution and our rights afforded in it. Obama is one along with many other politicians who are inline with and giving massive approvals to what Obama is doing to destroy our Constitutional rights which were given so we would be able to stand against rulers like this Chose One who wants to RE-INSLAVE US ALL, EVEN THE MILLIONS OF MINION FREELOADERS WHO HAVE BEEN DUPED BY THE SUPER DUPER. OH how eazy it would be if we just reacted to EMOTIONS about massive shooting done by Evil intentioned people like them and gave up our rights freely for the Good of all. Once again HISTORY SHOWS that when the people ar helpless and can't defend themselves against aggresive Tyrannical Despots, then the people suffer, killed and inslaved to those that have the ARMS FOR TOTAL CONTROL over those that do not have arms.
I need a Forever Comfy to sit on as i can see this is going to be a very long Battle between those that would inslave us and those that will not lay down and accept that as an Alternate Life Style from the Liberals.

normolson
389
Points
normolson 01/19/13 - 10:34 pm
1
1
Chris Matthews (msnbc) Finally Breaks The Code

A couple days ago, while watching the thousands protesting the Obama Gun Bill, remarked, "It looks like they are getting ready to fight against the government."

Well daaahhh. . .

Militia units are springing up all across America. Millions of new gun owners need to join up so that they can be well-regulated and properly trained.

The next big event may be a show down between federal jackboots and a well-armed militia. There will be blood, both that of the patriot and they tyrant, just as Jefferson prescribed.

JDBishop5
182
Points
JDBishop5 01/20/13 - 08:25 am
2
0
@normolson

Your remarks come close to '...advocating the overthrow of the United States Government by force and violence...'

Consider this reality.

18 USC 2385 - Advocating overthrow of Government

Legal Research Home > US Code > Crimes and Criminal Procedure > 18 USC 2385 - Advocating overthrow of Government

Sec. 2385. Advocating overthrow of Government

Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or
Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or
Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.
If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.
As used in this section, the terms "organizes" and "organize", with respect to any society, group, or assembly of persons, include the recruiting of new members, the forming of new units, and the regrouping or expansion of existing clubs, classes, and other units of such society, group, or assembly of persons.

This phrase is worthy of repetition;

'...Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both...'

Think before you shoot off your mouth, or your keyboard. Sometimes people are punished by getting what they wish for.

This lengthy exchange has reminded me of one of the major reasons I left Alaska. There are wonderful exceptions, but Alaska suffers under a disproportionally high concentration of relatively uneducated, highly religious, fanatical, untraveled, and violent white people. Illiteracy, domestic violence and alcoholism run rampant in the state. A large percentage of those folks have come up the highway, or flown in, fleeing from the devil, an ex husband or wife, someone else's husband or wife, joblessness, personal failure, the commies, the law enforcement agencies where they came from, black people, and general feelings of inadequacy. In Alaska, a state that charges no income taxes and pays every living person a check each year, just for surviving the winter, and receives multiples of federal dollars for each its citizens pay into the national reserves, white men all too often push their chests out and claim to be rough and ready frontiersmen. In fact, when the oil supply is exhausted, Alaska's economy will collapse, and the yearly dole will stop as there is no complex of industry or other enterprises that will support the large concentration of unskilled labor living there. The travel industry may continue, but the people who have money to spend on it have no appetite for the company of 'frontiersmen' bloviating about fighting the United States Army to a standstill. Unfortunately, the original inhabitants of the state have lost so much of their understanding of the skills their great grandfathers and great grandmothers had, needed to survive in a 'hunter, gatherer' economy, that even their continued survival is in question when the crisis comes, particularly when the diminution of the natural animal population is considered. Alaskans are all too often so insular that they cannot comprehend issues larger than their local prejudices, and are offended, as some reading this now are, when this stark fact is revealed to them.

Armed with weapons providing firepower that overwhelms their local police, small Klans of loud, often drunken, white men proclaim their desire to part from the 'Lower 48,' never calculating their ability to plod on when the present Federal Dole runs out. Some were shocked when citizens of the contiguous states refused to finance their 'Bridge To Nowhere,' believing, for some unknowable reason, that they could continue to use the felonious senator they elected over and over and over to pave their gravel streets with gold.

BigRedDog
656
Points
BigRedDog 01/20/13 - 07:14 am
3
1
Better armed COPS?

The police should allways have better weapons that a citizen can obtain? What kind of fairytale world do you live in. How about Timothy McVeigh he had a weapon didn't he? You'll remember he killed 168 people 19 were children under 6 years old, all at once and injured 680. You can still buy fertilizer, racing fuel, and rent box trucks so apparently you don't need a gun to be a mass murderer. Just the will, or is it the ill will against others, is all that is needed along with a certain amount of either mental or emotional impairment.
With many current political upheavals wall to wall all around the world you want me to disarm? With my current Government unable to function rationally and maintain basic needs, you know like a strong Dollar. How sure are you that these folks are not going to run our ship of National Economy right aground in these dangerous waters of overspending. The fact that this economy could collaps like a like a Macy's Day parade balloon has me very concerned. Monetary failure could cause a level of civil unrest challenging local LE well beyond their capacity to control. Just when they need my help the most is when I plan on showing up and there will be hundreds just like me crawling out of the woodworks. And you would have me limited by an <10 rnd mag? Those bad guys will still have those 30,40, 50, and 100 rnd mags and I'll be reloading a lot. But I'm going to be there and many many more will be joining me, so take your trash talk about our 2nd Amendment back to Ireland with you. And don't try to tell me the Irish are really free, you all are just working on Miss Maggies Farm.

radiokenai
560
Points
radiokenai 01/20/13 - 08:31 am
0
0
Jimmy Joe Bob Bishop
Unpublished

First you advocate tearing apart our second amendment rights, then you post a script trying to threaten Norm Olson first amendment right of freedom of speech!

Ya, glad you are in Ireland right where you belong!

Stay there, because you forgotten American history and seem to be embracing King and Country!

Let me help you out on why you left Alaska: Because Alaska doesn't like your kind of mindset and you were basically run out of town! (Sort of like the town idiot?) It frustrates me that someone of your liberal views deceitfully snuck into our school system to teach our children your fouled up liberal point of view! Thank goodness you were escorted out of Alaska! It is obvious that you don't like our Great State, so why waste good editorial columns complaining about it...?

Ireland is just the place for you! I am sure they don't have Alcohol and Violence there do they??? Bu-Bye!!

normolson
389
Points
normolson 01/20/13 - 11:26 am
1
1
Oh Pooh!

Hey, JDB, you need a reality check. Have you ever read the Declaration of Independence? Replacing the government is the natural right of free men. When tyranny raises its ugly head, free men will dispose of the tyrant and find "new guards" for our liberties.

Thanks for your "bone shaking" warnings, but they don't deter free men who have no other option than to resort to arms. There are 5 ways to change government. If you care to look at them, they are available at www.militiaguy.com

The final option is the cartridge box. The Militia stands as a warning to the central government that it will not abide or endure tyranny for long.

You seem to think that we patriots are a bunch of passive sheep waiting to be slaughtered. WRONG! We want the central government to operate within the restictions of the Constitution. If it does not, it becomes a disobdient child that needs a good spanking to make it behave.

I am surprised that after more than a week of trying to educate you, you still don't seem to want the knowledge of who we are.

I've been saying the same thing for 20 years, mate! Your citation of the law may apply to someone, but certainly not the militia. The militia's purpose is already set forth in the 2nd Amendment: ". . .the security of a free state. . ."

You're not going to get traction here... Good try though.

JDBishop5
182
Points
JDBishop5 01/20/13 - 11:55 am
1
1
OK then.

You know what you are doing. That cancels the mental health defense.

Norseman
2921
Points
Norseman 01/20/13 - 01:06 pm
1
1
JD

JD you have been spot on the entire time. After norm and ray were booted out of the michigan militia for being tooo extreme, they decided to move to nikiski.
We have had to put up with their hate filled, overthrow the government, there will be blood, one world order, evil this way comes BS for several years now.

What the whacked out militia groups think is NOT what the vast majority of Alaskans think.

There are many like myself who are at war with the militia. When they decide to tear our town, state, country apart, they are in for a huge surprise.

You definitely have a keen insight into the current events here in AK. Do not think that the few blowhards in here represent all of us real Alaskans, not transplanted redneck trash talking blowhards.

Some of them on here are obviously the ones who need to have a mental health check because they are not fit to own a weapon. Homeland security, ATF, and the FBI should be monitoring this topic and confiscate some of these whackjobs weapons before they go off the deep end and kill innocent citizens.

JDBishop5
182
Points
JDBishop5 01/20/13 - 01:51 pm
1
1
@Norseman

I quite agree. It almost seems that one way to detect a person who should not have a firearm is to listen to what they say and read what they write; the more they want guns, the more emotionally involved they are in the issue, the less they are safe to have any.

One missing bit of data attracts my attention as missing in this discussion; snipers use bolt action rifles.

Luvflyfishing
214
Points
Luvflyfishing 01/20/13 - 02:14 pm
0
0
POLL ALASKANS

I think maybe we need to poll all Alaskans and get their opionions.
The opinions of the few who post here do not represent all of Alaska.
I, for one, certainly do not agree with JD Bishop!
He is missing the point entirely. I am beginning to think that he does not believe what he is posting either. He wants everyone to agree with him so he can say he proved something to the world. SAD!!
I do not expect everyone to agree with what I believe in.
I do, nonetheless, believe that most Alaskans will disagree with him. Ask your neighbors and friends how they feel about guns. Mr. Bishop does not understand FREEDOM!

Watchman on the Wall
2893
Points
Watchman on the Wall 01/20/13 - 03:39 pm
0
1
Armed for Battle!

Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. 11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. 13Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. 14Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; 15And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. 17And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

This just about says it all concerning the Battles we are fighting, there are spiritual as well as physical, the physical Battle is due to the spiritual forces using humans to do it's work for now here on earth in this realm, both Good & Evil.
Read the BOOK, especially the End of the BOOK, so you know the END REVELATION of the story and know which side you want to be fighting for. Our Constitution was also written and given for the helping of people to understand what will come to try & inslave and destroy all of us if we were not prepared and able to stand and fight it's spread with ARMS needed to fight with on the Battle fields of the world, even America.
Enough said on this subject matter other than to say it's gonna get a lot worse than just words printed here as time goes by at a warp speed towards WWIII from people wanting to inslave and people wanting to remain Free at the END OF THE AGE we are now in.

radiokenai
560
Points
radiokenai 01/20/13 - 05:09 pm
0
0
Noreseman: You are what you eat!
Unpublished

Haha! You ARE one of whackjobs that you speak of!

Stand up and take a bow!

I wouldn't trust your mental state (based on your liberal anti-american comment) with a sling shot!

The mere thought that you could posses a firearm should clew in baracky to come take a serious look at YOUR state of mind.

You are what you eat!

Luvflyfishing
214
Points
Luvflyfishing 01/20/13 - 05:48 pm
0
1
Amen!! WOTW

People can debate. They can argue. But no not one can debate or argue Gods truths for any gain in this world. It is all for naught if they try. My faith is in his holy word for anyone who
Chooses to read it. I know no one on here personally. However,
I do believe you and I will meet someday. If
Not in this world, surely the one to come.
I pray: Lord come quickly.

BigRedDog
656
Points
BigRedDog 01/21/13 - 10:58 am
0
1
JD and norseman feel differently

Woe, that you would feel in any time of civil unrest or forgein invasion, that local LE or Military Cammanders, would not welcome the hundreds if not thousands of citizen soldiers coming literally out of the woods is rediculous. That is what we the people means, and why I opose your efforts to disarm these fine citizen soldeirs who take this responsibility very seriously. Every gun owner I know is absolutely ill over the Newtown murders.
We all know the old saying fool me once, that's on me, fool me twice! Now it is clear past gun control efforts have been less than effective for disarming criminals. And your own Police Cheif expert admits that the criminals are now armed with these weapons. So logic would say that to respond to the needs of LE, citizen locals would have to be appropriately armed or suicidal to attempt opposing any enemy capable of rousing our local LE.
Just incase you are unaware these guys and gals in local LE are pretty dammed hot with the primary tools of their trade. Yet it is not a streatch of the imagination to forsee in time of disaster or foreign invasion enough of them could be lost in the 1st responce to make citizen volenteers useful. That is one very basic Right guaranteed via our 2nd Amendment. Don't try to litigate or vote the constitutions Bill of Rights out of existance to meet your new social agenda is what I'm saying. As a responsible gun owner I think do disarm the public to the extent needed to reach your goals would leave us vulnerable to the diasters. Even forced unfair martial law, or even a tyranical overthrow of Government. Tyrants are out there and they like ruling with that old iron fist. History has shown our wise forefathers this to be fact. I think that is why they desired it be very clear within our basic function as a nation, that our public should have the right and assume the responsibility of being appropriately armed.

Watchman on the Wall
2893
Points
Watchman on the Wall 01/21/13 - 12:10 pm
0
0
HAPPY Roe vs Wade Day tomorrow.

January 22, 1973 the rights to kill babies was passed and there have been over 55,777,500+ MILLIONS BABIES KILLED IN THIS 40 YEARS.
Just the last 1461 days, 4 yrs under Obama there have been 4.8 MILLION BEAUTIFUL BABIES KILLED at a rate of 6500+ A DAY from bad sex acts, with MANY REPEAT OFFENREDS.
So whats killing our children and our future?
It's not about protecting people from guns when we actually stop and look at JUST ONE of the mass killing tools used to kill humans here in America alone.
NOW IS IT?

normolson
389
Points
normolson 01/21/13 - 10:19 pm
0
0
You Guys Comfortable?

Bishop and Norseman, what a combo...you guys deserve each other.

Bottom Line: We will never disarm. We will never surrender our military pattern, semi-automatic rifles and the full capacity magazines, parts, and ammunition that go with them. The fundamental purpose of the Second Amendment is to preserve the military power of We the People so we will have effective means to resist tyranny. Regardless of what unholy, unconstitutional filth issues from the mouths of tyrants on the Potomac . .. . our answer is MOLON LABE.
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force: Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined."- Patrick Henry.

JDBishop5
182
Points
JDBishop5 01/22/13 - 01:57 am
2
0
@normolson

King Leonidas, with 'molon labe' was answering an invading foreign army. You are openly advocating using force to resist the authority, even to overthrow, the elected and legitimate government of your own country. (You are a citizen, I trust.) They are very different situations. We applied 18th century philosophy to the establishment of our government, in fits and starts and 'sort of,' having been very slow with enfranchising all our fellow citizens, and heartlessly cruel to the people who had been living here for about 14,000 years. That system provides you with powerful ways to displace people and policies of which you disapprove. It is not within your power to decide what the Constitution means. We have a Supreme Court to do that. Government, local (Kenai might lawfully criminalize the carrying of loaded weapons within its boundaries, as has been done in many cities almost since guns were invented.), states might outlaw certain types of firearms (As New York just did.), and the federal government may outlaw semiautomatic firearms, among others, nation wide. When any of those laws is tested in court, by action or inaction the Supreme Court will decide if the law is Constitutional. If you don't like the judgement of the Court, and even advocate taking up arms against it as you have come close to doing here in this discussion, you will discover that the lesson Eisenhower taught the racists in Little Rock in 1957, that the Civil Rights Act is binding on them, is still valid. The Army is funded for the purpose of enforcing federal law, even in backwaters, if required. You will also discover that many of your fellow citizens will support the central government's actions. Patriotism is not just getting your way. It is assisting in formulating the law and obeying it. It is also accepting the judgement of a court when you don't.

kenai123
1310
Points
kenai123 01/22/13 - 02:28 am
1
2
JDBishop5

I believe I see your point JDBishop5. If you happen to find yourself eating a delicious sandwich, you stand on the mountain top and scream that those who bake bread are bad
and that sandwichs should be banned. If you happen to be driving a gasoline car, you crawl up on that mountain and scream that gasoline is bad and should be banned.
If you are building a home with lumber, you climb up there and start brawling that wood is bad and should be banned. WHANN, WANNN, WANNNN...
So it follows that if you are the beneficiary of hundreds of years of persons having free and open access to modern firearms, you then crawl up on your mountain and start crying about modern firearms being bad and should be banned. WHANN, WHANN, WHANN!!!! You poor thing, we all feel so bad for you...

JDBishop5
182
Points
JDBishop5 01/22/13 - 02:44 am
0
0
@kenai123

And, that is not a good thing, as your kids can tell you.

Norseman
2921
Points
Norseman 01/22/13 - 07:49 am
2
0
JD

....."You will also discover that many of your fellow citizens will support the central government's actions. Patriotism is not just getting your way. It is assisting in formulating the law and obeying it. It is also accepting the judgement of a court when you don't...."

Bingo! Well written!

I am one of the fellow citizens that JD is talking about. I will load up my musket and defend our government against the treasonist traitors who take up arms against her. You go against my country, you go against me.

Those who have went against our government have ALWAYS been on the wrong side of history. norm and ray, and his militia sheeple have not figured that out yet.

Watchman on the Wall
2893
Points
Watchman on the Wall 01/22/13 - 10:36 am
0
2
You just don't get it

It still appears that we have a GR8 DIVIDE, we that understand the DOMESTIC ATTACKS also means a Chosen Messiah prez. who continually uses FIAT to try and circumvent the Constitution of the United States of America, you that just don't get that same understanding of what our forefathers were sayin when they wrote the WARNINGS.
Presidents,Rulers or people will come in the FUTURE, "NOW" and will ATTACK our Constitutional Rights and Freedoms. THESE ATTACKERS WILL BE BOTH FORIEGN & DOMESTIC.
Thanks for drawing your line in the sand a little wider now there norseman, not suprized with the line, just that you are stepping across that line against continual Freedoms for Americans to bear arms, we now fully know which Militia you will be fighting with if it ever comes to that fight, the Militia that seeks to destroy are Freedoms for your Messiah's Dream of RE-INSLAVING US ALL, even you smart one.
Make no mistake folks the GLOBAL WORLD WARIII against all Citizens of the World is coming and it will be worse than the 56 MILLION KILLED IN WWII. As all wars result in one of two things by either joining the UNION or fighting the UNION, in this case it will result in 2/3rds of all life being wiped out.
War is ANOTHER WAY of Aborting humans that slipped past being done so at birth.

THEY HAVE A DREAM! A DREAM TO KILL ALLMOST EVERY HUMAN ALIVE, EVEN FELLOW WORSHIPPERS.

Two sides folks to every Battle and sooner or later EVERY ONE will BE FORCED TO DECIDE, GOOD OR EVIL.
God help us ALL, and is the ONLY help for ALL in Eternity.

BigRedDog
656
Points
BigRedDog 01/22/13 - 11:29 am
0
2
Simple majority isn't enough

Through out history common law has shown, often the rights of the minority prevail over time and are upheld in law. The rules governing the operation of these United States are based upon the rules of a Republic. Meaning we ALL have certain rights and obligations, that you receive opposition when trying to rewrite the rules of this Republic should be no surprize. Letters writen in the blood of patriots in Concorde and Somali bear more following than a knee jerk pandering to social agenda programs.
That this or any current governing majority would take such extreme measures against the minority without regard for their concerns is questionalble, and will meet with opposition so quit acting so surprized that somebody would say anything you don't agree with, okay get over it.

kenai123
1310
Points
kenai123 01/22/13 - 12:50 pm
1
2
by just banning them?

Why do you think we cannot stop prostitution, alcohol or drug addition or murder & violence by just banning them?
Because you would actually need to understand these very complex issues before you even have a chance to resolve them. Rather than trying to understand to resolve them Obamo is so simple minded and lazy that he actually believes just banning them and guns will make them go away.
How much money did we have to waste proving we could not remove alcohol additions by banning booze, how many had to die? Obamo learned NOTHING about the human heart from proabition, he would no doubt do it all again just for the thrill.

Watchman on the Wall
2893
Points
Watchman on the Wall 01/22/13 - 01:15 pm
0
1
BINGO JD & Norseman

....."You will also discover that many of your fellow citizens will support the central government's actions. Patriotism is not just getting your way. It is assisting in formulating the law and obeying it. It is also accepting the judgement of a court when you don't...."

BINGO IN JUST THE OPPOSITE!
You will as well find that MANY of your fellow citizens will NOT support the central govt's actions if they are in exact opposite of what OUR Constitution says, no matter how much Obama uses FIAT to circumvent the Constitution.
So what do we have here folks with the lines being drawn in the sand by TWO IDEALS on our rights to bear arms to protect us against evil power hungry despots who seek to control us all for their Global Citizenry of Union One MEMBERS ONLY?

JDBishop5
182
Points
JDBishop5 01/22/13 - 03:04 pm
1
0
@kenai123

President Obama '...is so simple minded and lazy...?' Right. 'Simple minded' people regularly get a Juris Doctorate, magna cum laude, from Harvard, become Editor and President of the Harvard Law Review, go on to become a United States Senator, and are twice elected President. It's common. Lazy people fit into that mold easily as well. You've got your facts straight.

You have a really well developed grasp on reality there.

normolson
389
Points
normolson 01/22/13 - 04:41 pm
1
1
Damn Straight!

JDB blathered: "You are openly advocating using force to resist the authority, even to overthrow, the elected and legitimate government of your own country. (You are a citizen, I trust.) "

Damn Straight I'm a citizen. 20+ years military service, 25 awards and decorations for dedicated faithful and honorable service.

As far as openly advocating ". . .using force to resist the authority. . ." well, you're sounding more like Senator Arlen Specter with slick and slippery words that were never spoken my me. ( www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmFqtJsN7wo) I'll quote the Declaration of Independence and I'll tell you straight up that I have the natural right to defend myself and the collective right to stand with free men and women to protect ourselves from tyranny. "Overthrow" is a bit of stretch... I'd rather think that if WE THE PEOPLE were to stand united and strong, that the tyrant might just collapse under the sheer weight of his own corrupted system.
It doesn't cost much in terms of money to arm oneself or to outfit a militia group. How much do you suppose the central government spends in equipping and manning its huge and hungry machine?
Well, soon the money will be gone and the soldiers of tyranny will be walking home to be with their own families.

I can wait.

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