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Nation has broken its promise to veterans

Posted: May 25, 2014 - 1:38pm  |  Updated: May 26, 2014 - 10:33am

OK, the parade has ended. The picnic goodies are put away, and the guys with the funny hats and flags have gone home. Memorial Day is over. Did you do your part? No, I’m not talking about turning out for a rally or watching aging veterans marching by. I’m talking about what you will do, now that you know that your veterans are left to die by the Veterans Administration. I’m talking about the neglected ones, those who grasp at empty promises that they will be cared for promptly, adequately, mercifully, and with the dignity they deserve.

As a 20-plus year veteran myself, I see hypocrisy. I see thousands of veterans who were unlucky enough to survive the horrors of war. Sadly they came home maimed, wounded and hurt inside and out. Regrettably they survived.

The ones who died are the lucky ones. They get their names on fancy stones, engraved so that America may be reminded, if anyone really bothers to see the long lines of whited stones at the nation’s memorial cemeteries.

The living come home to the phony promises and to the broken contract they had with all of you! They depended on you, and you have failed them!

Shame on you, America. You broke your word. The very best men and women that you’ll ever produce are left alone, neglected, and denied essential medical and other services. Shame on you, America. While you pour out resources on undeserving groups, the only group of people who truly deserve the full support and compassion of the government, that sent them into the hell of war, are the veterans who come home to face those who care nothing for them.

I don’t like the word “entitlement” because it’s used too broadly. There are entitlements for so many who don’t deserve them, but the ones who do, who earned it through the sound, the smell, and the sight of war are the ones who are denied them. America, does that trouble you?

Shame on you, America. You can take care of the undeserving while avoiding those who deserve everything. They were willing to die for you, why can’t you just lift a finger for them? Does it bother you? Aren’t you glad Memorial Day is over?

Shame on you.

On the battlefield, we all vowed, “No one left behind.”

Isn’t it ironic that our veterans have to come home to be forgotten?

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Carver
1118
Points
Carver 05/26/14 - 10:42 am
3
1
No, shame on you . . .

Is anyone expected to take this unmitigated nonsense seriously? The nation has "broken its promise" to its veterans?

I don't think so. A few swallows do not a summer make, and a few bad bureaucrats to not define national policy.

Shame on you for so insulting your fellow citizens and for denigrating all the excellent care given to our nation's veterans.

Shame, shame, shame . . . on you.

normolson
389
Points
normolson 05/26/14 - 11:36 am
1
3
First of all...

First of all, if you are not a veteran then you'll never understand what "mad as hell" means.

If you are a veteran, you should be looking everywhere and doing everything you can to support your fellow veterans. If just one is neglected and pushed to the side of the road, then ALL veterans should be "mad as hell."

The living veterans see the great manicured lawns adorned with white marble stones. You may not be able to, but have you considered that white marble is far less expensive than giving aid to the wounded and other veterans coming home. After all, which takes more maintenance, the veteran who is suffering the cancers or the manicured lawns? The only maintenance the stones need is an occasional mowing. Cheap, fast, and looking good.... The old veteran who is dying of cancer costs too much for the Central Government to afford.
Damn them! The same central government that gives billions of dollars to people who hate us cannot afford the bill they have brought on themselves by sending our best into the cannon's mouth.
Damn them!

Carver
1118
Points
Carver 05/26/14 - 11:47 am
5
2
Over-the-top hatchet job . . .

Give it a rest.

A few unfortunate instances do not define national policy, priorities, or practice in spite of your vicious, broad-brush smears.

Shame on you . . .

Suss
3328
Points
Suss 05/26/14 - 12:14 pm
5
1
Why, why the hatefulness?

The VA does have meds and counselors for vets that rage with anger. It is not healthy for the one suffering with this rage, nor for the people around them.

Please tell all friends and family that there is quality help available to vets, it is only a phone call away.

http://www.alaska.va.gov/locations/other_facilities.asp

For those non-qualifying as a veteran for VA healthcare there is affordable healthcare at https://www.healthcare.gov

It is never too late to get help.

cheapersmokes
833
Points
cheapersmokes 05/26/14 - 02:36 pm
1
3
Veterans!

I must admit I very seldom will ever agree with Norm Olson on any subject but he right on with his statements on this one. I served only three years but in the mid 70's as an artillery Battalion's S-1 officer (administration) but I was told by many senior NCO's to stay away from the VA medical care system. I was paralyzed from the waist down by a quack of a chiropractor and spent a week in a local hospital and didn't get any care there so went to the Mpls VAMC and had three back operations to get walking again. I thought the care I was given was outstanding! When I cut my foot in April of 2003 I went back for more care. We had a new VAMC Director and he was a real piece of [filtered word]. He had training given to the Doctor's on how they should write up the records to show it was the veterans fault for not following their instructions which results in their lack of healing or even death. I was advised to file for service connected benefits under the provisions of Article 1151c which I did in March of 2006. I went to the Podiatry Clinic at least twice a week for over 18 months and when they told me they needed to cut my heel like a horseshoe and scrap the bone I told them I was taking my records to an outside the VA Podiatry Specialist for their opinion. He looked at my records for 3 minutes and then my foot and told me he expected a bone infection and it would never heal up until that was resolved. He verified this with an X ray and also a Nuclear Imaging Test. When I told the Podiatry Clinic Director what he had found he said he had to be either "Nuts or Crazy!" They didn't see me for over two months and I made a daily call to get admitted for care to resolve the bone infection but it took them 9 weeks to get me admitted for care. I then spent 10 of the next 12 months as an inpatient getting four hours of IV antibiotic injections four times a day. Then they told me it was "chronic" so they would have to amputate my lower leg which was done in July of 2007. They have denied my claim on every level and have even went so far as to forge my medical records to show I didn't show up for X ray appointments which would have identified the bone infection (this is a criminal offense). I now have a new claims hearing on Wednesday and fully expect to present evidence to earn me back benefits from March of 2006 (almost one half million all tax free) and another $3,000+ every month. If you want to call this an entitlement then let me cut off your leg below the knee and see how you feel on something that should and could of been easily avoided.
Entitlement me this! :-(

Thanks Norm for bringing up the terrible way our government is providing for the vets now!

Carver
1118
Points
Carver 05/26/14 - 03:29 pm
3
2
Not even wrong . . .

For every negative instance of VA health care, there are hundreds of thousands of positive cases.

All those VA facilities across the country gotta be caring for someone.

Add to that all the pensions and our veterans are treated well in spite of a very few cases to the contrary.

normolson
389
Points
normolson 05/26/14 - 04:34 pm
2
4
Carver.. You're missing the point

I've heard the lame statement over and over. "They are doing a good job for the majority of veterans." That's BS.
The unlimited resources of the federal government should guarantee that the very best treatment is given to EVERY veteran. Do you know what "No one left behind" means?
Cheapersmokes gets it. He's been a victim of dismal failure of the VA. Now you may mock him and try to convince him that others got treatment so why should he whine about it. I'll tell you why! It is that every single veteran is equally entitled to the best quality of medical service that exists in America.
Carver, do you actually believe that the VA is doing a good job? If you do, then please explain the hundreds of deaths caused by their ineptness. If just one veteran dies because of neglect or "budget restrictions" it means that they ARE NOT doing a good job.
Your silly rationale that "For every negative instance of VA health care, there are hundreds of thousands of positive cases" is simply a confession that they are failing. I read stories all time like the one cheapersmokes related. There's no excuse for that kind of treatment for one of America's best.

There's an old saying: "If you really want to honor the dead, take care of the living." What we are seeing from the VA dishonors the dead and dishonors America.

Carver
1118
Points
Carver 05/26/14 - 08:05 pm
4
1
Yes . . .

"Carver, do you actually believe that the VA is doing a good job?"
*******************

You bet I do, and so do the tens of thousands of our veterans who daily use VA hospitals, doctors, and services.

Shame on you for viciously asserting otherwise—insulting your fellow Americans, and denigrating VA caregivers.

normolson
389
Points
normolson 05/26/14 - 08:18 pm
1
4
You are mistaken

Carver, you don't know what you're talking about. Evidently you are not a veteran who has a deep-seated heart's desire to see HIS/HER FELLOW VETERANS cared for. It's not about me, or cheapersmokes... It's about the thousands who are suffering because of bureaucracy. They are the ones who are suffering. Since you are not a vet, you do not have a place at this table. Please excuse yourself.

cheapersmokes
833
Points
cheapersmokes 05/26/14 - 10:32 pm
1
3
Veterans care

Carver, How about telling us just what your position is in the VA and your military history. You're right in that the VA has overall very good caregivers but unfortunately, their are many who aren't but they cannot be removed due to freaking union protection and even the Sec of the VA doesn't have the authorization to remove the "dead" wood either.
Want to talk about entitlements for a bit? A soldier spends 20 years of service always on a possible deployment to a combat zone and then they can retire with I think 1/10th of their pay. A member of Congress serves 3 terms in the house or one in the Senate and they get full pay for life of $175,000 which is close to the pay of a four star General of which only about 10 make out of a force of close to 750,000 soldiers ever makes. This whole discussion is about promises our country made to us and they are meeting less and less of them ever single year and yet you think this is all good! Look for this to become a very hot issue in the upcoming elections and also many in the VA system losing their jobs and also pensions. The care in Alaska wasn't any better either. I developed another bone infection in my stump and this was diagnosed in Alaska also and yet they didn't treat it for many months and even refused to repair my artificial leg since it fell off while going down steps at the Providence Hospital in Anchorage and they refused until the infection was resolved. I had to crawl back to my car and then into a hardware store to purchase a roll of duct tape to wrap around the plastic cuff so I could wear the leg. I then called the Mpls VAMC and they said to get back there ASAP for care which I did. While waiting at the airport they called and asked if I could come in for a pre surgery work up. They said they were going to cut off another couple of inches off of my leg. I told them I was going back to the Mpls VAMC for care. I got down here and they took care of it with a dozen pills and built me a new permanent prosthetic leg. That cost the VA system over $35,000 and this whole process could of been avoided with a simple $6 X ray taken every month.
Lets hear of your work history and veterans status Carver!

Go to the American Legions web site for a memo that an Under Secretary of the VA wrote about the problems in the VA system. No longer will I sit back and allow [filtered word] poor care to our veterans!

leewaytooo
1636
Points
leewaytooo 05/27/14 - 04:32 am
2
0
really??? the VA like any

really???

the VA like any large entity will have people that are only

looking out for themselves.. I have experienced by far,

good care and good people at the VA vs. two occasions

where individuals were not doing their jobs. a simple

recording of a phone conversation set those liars straight

and exposed their lies to others. it is too bad that

all citizens do not receive at least the same level of care

that a veteran can and does receive at the VA.

if psychotics are unable to discern reality and refuse

to take their meds, then that is just the way that will always

be.... and so sad......

Carver
1118
Points
Carver 05/27/14 - 05:11 am
2
0
Personally invited . .

Carver, . . you do not have a place at this table. . .excuse yourself.
*******************

But, but, but . . you included me . . you yourself invited me when you slandered the nation.

Shame on you.

Carver
1118
Points
Carver 05/27/14 - 06:15 am
2
0
Thanks . . .

"Carver, . . You're right in that the VA has overall very good caregivers . ."
********************

Thank you . . .

RaySouthwell
953
Points
RaySouthwell 05/27/14 - 08:11 am
0
3
There is a difference

Good and bad caregivers are everywhere. The issue at hand is why our government does not fully support our veterans. Can any one tell me why the" Wounded Warrior Project" was started. Their motto is-"the greatest casualty is being forgotten."

Many just want to place blinders on and ignore what we have our soldiers do and suffer. See no evil, hear no evil and rail against those who speak about the evil.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wounded_Warrior_Project

Carver
1118
Points
Carver 05/27/14 - 08:33 am
1
0
More demagoguery, more false witness . .

As you say, Ray, there is good and bad everywhere.

However, to slither from that simple and obvious fact to an accusation that the government and the nation do not fully support our veterans is vicious, unwarranted slander.

Shame on you. Shame on Norm.

—from Wounded Warrior Project:
"Your generous, tax deductible donation to Wounded Warrior Project® (WWP) enables us to help thousands of injured warriors returning home from the current conflicts and to provide assistance to their families. As the number of wounded steadily increases, it is easy to see how the needs of these brave individuals also increase."

Shame on you. Shame on Norm.

RaySouthwell
953
Points
RaySouthwell 05/27/14 - 08:38 am
0
3
Just like most

Carver, You are just like most. Ignore honest questions. I see it in most discussions. Abortion, Gay marriage, Global warming, how we care for our veterans and our failed economic system. Take your blinders off. It is a great big world out there and many are suffering outside your little world of self centered comfort.

Carver
1118
Points
Carver 05/27/14 - 08:42 am
3
0
Take your own advice, Ray . . .

"Carver . . outside your little world . . "
*******************

Tacky, tacky, Ray . . go look in the mirror . .

Best wishes,

RaySouthwell
953
Points
RaySouthwell 05/27/14 - 10:35 am
0
3
Agreed

I am tacky and not very smart. Being tacky and not too bright is not the topic of discussion. How poorly we treat our veterans is. You still never answered the question why veterans felt a need to start an organization called the Wounded Warrior Project?

Rather go for the ad hominem approach.

Carver
1118
Points
Carver 05/27/14 - 11:45 am
3
0
Lies . . .

"How poorly we treat our veterans is [the topic] . . "
******************

And that is the LIE being told here. The United States treats its veterans extremely well in spite of a very few, unavoidable cases to the contrary.

To claim that the "nation has broken its promise to veterans" is, in my estimation, a vicious lie designed to perpetrate civil discord.

Shame on you. Shame on Norm.

RaySouthwell
953
Points
RaySouthwell 05/27/14 - 12:35 pm
0
3
Now we are getting somewhere

"perpetrate civil discord." Therein is our difference. You believe words can generate civil discord. Words never do it unless there is truth with the examples given.

I remember the same argument during the Civil Rights movement.

So, relax. there is nothing to worry about because we are doing a great job caring for our veterans, in your opinion.

Carver
1118
Points
Carver 05/27/14 - 12:46 pm
3
0
Solomon disagrees . . .

"There are six things the Lord hates, seven that are detestable to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, a false witness who pours out lies and a person who stirs up conflict in the community."

—Solomon

normolson
389
Points
normolson 05/27/14 - 02:15 pm
0
3
Carver, you still don't get it.

Surprisingly, to those who can't or won't understand, I am not against the VA, I'm against the bureaucracy. Maybe you need a bit of instruction as to how a military member thinks.
The service member lives his/her whole life according to regulations. Failing to abide by the regs, one faces severe discipline and or penalties. At all times, the service member is under close scrutiny. The corporal is watched by the sergeant who is responsible to the captain and so on all the way up the line. Even the commander can be dismissed for the neglect of the lowest subordinate.
Okay, now take a look at the VA. They are all Civil Service workers. They have protections for themselves that are stronger than any union's. Dismissing a "GS" is nearly impossible. In short, no VA bureaucrat will ever go on KP duty. Once they are in, their performance doesn't really matter. They don't get "busted" like enlisted military or "rifted" as do officers.
Here's something else you should understand (if you'll just open you mind)... If you were to talk to any VA health care provider who wants to serve all with equal quality of treatment, here's the question you should pose: "If you unlimited funds and the opportunity, how or what would you do to improve?" The physician might say, "more qualified medical staff." The adminstration paper pusher would say, "more staff, less clutter and less paperwork." Some would say, "bigger and better facilities, a heart facility, a cancer facility, a orthopedics facility."
With unlimited funds, the sky would be the limit, but even
with all the money, you can't buy total commitment and dedication. That's why I say that EVERY SINGLE PERSON EMPLOYED BY THE VA should be a military veteran.
Only veterans can feel the hurt and need of others who have trod the sod in their brogans.
Here's something else you need to learn about service members. They have lived by regulations their whole life. They have learned to exist without "rocking the boat." They aren't likely to complain. Why? Because they are too damn proud to beg! Did you get that???? THEY ARE TOO DAMN PROUD TO BEG.

The fact is that the US Government does have the funding to make sure every veteran is cared for quickly. The obstructions come from bureaucrats who are not veterans themselves. How can they feel the empathy or compassion?
Veterans are merely numbers and statistics to them!

Carver
1118
Points
Carver 05/27/14 - 03:06 pm
4
0
Condescending nonsense . . .

What gnostic, condescending nonsense . . yadda, yadda, yadda . .

The nation has not broken its promise to its veterans. Period.

Your vicious attempt to stir up social discord over a few, isolated, unfortunate incidents is beneath contempt.

Shame on you!

Suss
3328
Points
Suss 05/27/14 - 04:57 pm
4
0
Norm, Ray and John Show

I am enjoying this tit for tat, is that wrong?

Points to Carver for having the biblical quotes and pretty much seeing through the "hate central government" mantra.

normolson
389
Points
normolson 05/27/14 - 05:05 pm
0
3
Huh?

Gnostic? Are you sure you're using the correct adjective? Are you talking about Gnosticism in its classic terms or in the modern terminology often used to identify "Gnostic Christians?" Regardless, I definitely am NOT Gnostic, either in my theology or practical living. I look at things in a cold hard way and see injustice, corruption, and evil for what it is. And, unlike moderns who think rather Gnostically, I speak out about the wrong rather than accomodate it.
". . .[my] attempt to stir up social discord. . ." YES, that is exactly what I try to do. We live in a country where more social "discord" (as you call it) would be a welcome relief from the meek and mealy-mouthed sheeple who blindly follow the central government, believing it does all things well.
May I remind you of Benghazi, Fast and Furious, Obamacare, IRS targeting, in addition to the VA mess, and a dozen other bureaucratic foul-ups.
Perhaps discord comes from a lack of discourse. We don't want to have a discussion about broken machine called the VA because we don't want to question the government in anything it does.
So the question to you is, "are you so convinced YOU are right that you no longer want look at the facts?"
The way that we veterans cope is through the strength we have in ourselves and the fearlessness of veterans whistle-blowers and the courage of those who dare to question the government.
Please explain why the "Wounded Warrior" program has grown so prominently since Obama was elected. We veterans are the only ones who can really care for our own.

normolson
389
Points
normolson 05/27/14 - 05:19 pm
0
3
Suss... If you want Biblical quotation

(James 2:14-16) What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? (KJV)

(Matthew 25:40-45) And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. (KJV)

Read the parable of the Good Samaritan...
I would submit that the entire Bible teaches that we are our brother's keeper and that we need to watch for those who are hurting and to take appropriate action. There is nowhere in the Bible where the government is determined to be more important than the people themselves. Jesus cared about the hungry, the broken, the homeless, the victims of injustice and abuse. He also condemned the arrogrance of government when violated the Divine Mandate of 2 Samuel 23:3 "The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spake to me, He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God."
Do you know what justice is? It's the process that makes mercy and compassion work. It's correcting the wrongs by binding up the wounds of the oppressed.

Oh, listen... I'd be glad to go toe-to-toe with anyone when it comes to what the Bible says about the exploited and the victims of injustice.

Sadly, I don't think there are many who REALLY want to know. John the Baptist was butchered because he stood up to Herod.

Carver
1118
Points
Carver 05/27/14 - 05:34 pm
4
0
"Gnostic? Are you sure you're

"Gnostic? Are you sure you're using the correct adjective?"
******************

You bet!

gnostic: 1. of or relating to knowledge, especially esoteric mystical knowledge.

Your lie that the "nation has broken its promise to veterans" is obviously the product of "esoteric, mystical knowledge" not available to the rest of us.

Shame on you!

normolson
389
Points
normolson 05/27/14 - 07:03 pm
0
4
If it smells like a hog, . . .

It doesn't take esoteric, mystical knowledge to know that something is wrong. Try empirical knowledge from demonstrated and self evident observation and fact.

You do yourself a great disservice by not setting forth your evidence that the VA is doing a great job on behalf of the more than 100 veterans who have died. You should have no trouble at all finding multiple sources that support what the VA is doing...

Just send me a picture of the cheering crowds in the streets thanking the VA for allowing those 100-plus veterans to perish. Let me know when you have the facts and evidence.

Again, you appear to be a very poor debator who communicates in short retorts that signify very little, except for
you great reluctance to "bring it on."

Carver
1118
Points
Carver 05/27/14 - 08:48 pm
4
0
"Shame on you, America. You

"Shame on you, America. You broke your word. The very best men and women that you’ll ever produce are left alone, neglected, and denied essential medical and other services. Shame on you, America . . Shame on you, America. . . Aren’t you glad Memorial Day is over?" —Norm Olson
********************

Shame on you for such vicious, disgusting slander.

Suss
3328
Points
Suss 05/27/14 - 08:45 pm
2
0
100 Dead

Really need some proof, I think the families that have concerns about their loved ones would be ever grateful for your evidence Norm.

"Try empirical knowledge from demonstrated and self evident observation and fact".

Medical mistakes are everywhere, not just the VA.

Proving a med-mal death, cause of action is tough. If someone has the evidence, bring it forward.

I am still waiting for a particular matter to be disclosed from the Phoenix VA. Not sure if the truth will ever be known.

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